Tips for working with very short notes in DAW?

[hinson]

Do you have tips to help work with very short notes? I very rarely use short notes like the thirty-second note or even shorter ones like the sixth-fourth note.
I feel best when the note is sixteenth long and arranging a nice melody in EDM-Trance music is not that difficult but when I experimenting with short notes in Piano Roll it rarely turns out to be something cool.
For example in this example below. I do not know if I am able to arrange such insane melodies on a piano roll if I will be used sixty-fourth notes which this track probably uses.
I'm just suck when I trying to arranging something similar

The main melody starts somewhere in 32 seconds

[vurt]

try using different note lengths for melodies.
some 16, some 64, some 8.
vary it.
bass lines (often not always) yeah, stick to simple rythym.

melody, think of yourself singing a line or two.

doo doo dododo doooooo do doo doo...

more interesting than do do do do... even with pitch changes.

[jancivil]

those are musical ways to get variety, there's a technical answer:

people frequently like a shorter attack than a 'short' in whatever library will do, so they cut into the sample using the instruments UI.
also your higher-end libraries have eg., agile shorts, very short shorts and so forth.
EG:

offsets.jpg

that there isn't a 'short', it's just something to show the concept of offsets, cut into the sample, offset the attack
pretty easy in Kontakt as well

[Stamped Records]

Yeah, I think the key is a sharp attack (which translates to a short decay time in a synth or sampler).

A lot of the time, these sounds will be layered with some noise or a drum sample (like a high hat) to make the sound really sharp and clear.

You can achieve this with a synth somewhat, by using an envelope with a very short decay time to target random parameters but generally speaking, you won't get the sharpness that you get by using a drum sample. Good compression or a transient control to increase the attack, can work.

Some EQ boost in the high end will help it along too, and some mixverb so that you're not only hearing the sound as it plays but there is some subtle fade that you don't really hear, but it's there.

If you took away the layers that are adding sharpness to that sound, it wouldn't sound like that. It would be much rounder, softer.

[BertKoor]

In the example track I hear nothing shorter than a 16th, mainly in this pattern:

Code: Select all

|...x|..x.|...x|..x.|
|.x..|....|.x..|....|
|x...|....|x...|....|

Syncopated rather than fast or short.

[Stamped Records]

In the example track I hear nothing shorter than a 16th, mainly in this pattern:

Code: Select all

|...x|..x.|...x|..x.|
|.x..|....|x...|....|
|x...|....|.x..|....|

Syncopated rather than fast or short.

I agree, these are only 16th notes but I don't think this is what you are referring to as syncopation.

[BertKoor]

I don't think this is what you are referring to as syncopation.

You could have a point there, though I'm not sure what else to call it.

[gearwatcher]

A 16th rest on the weak 1/8th, followed by a note on the following 16th is syncopation, though.

Note that I haven't bothered listening, I'm going off the ASCII art there.

Basically, any displacement of a note from on-beat position (which is the weak 1/8th in the example above) is syncopation. In fact, in the two downbeats, the on-beat 1/8th rest, with the note being displaced to the weak 1/8th is also a syncopation.

Any form of having rests in the "on pulse" positions, and notes in the "off pulse" positions is syncopation.

[cryophonik]

Yeah, there’s definitely nothing shorter than 16th notes in the OP’s example (very cool song and vid!). You have to remember to separate tempo from note division. I’d guess that song is around 140 bpm. A 16th note at that tempo is going to be much shorter in duration than a 16th note at, say, 120 bpm. In contrast, a 64th note at 140bpm is going to sound like rapid machine gun fire (i.e., 16 notes per beat!). How it’s played (e.g., staccato vs. legato) can make it seem like it’s different division as well.

[Stamped Records]

A 16th rest on the weak 1/8th, followed by a note on the following 16th is syncopation, though.

Note that I haven't bothered listening, I'm going off the ASCII art there.

Basically, any displacement of a note from on-beat position (which is the weak 1/8th in the example above) is syncopation. In fact, in the two downbeats, the on-beat 1/8th rest, with the note being displaced to the weak 1/8th is also a syncopation.

Any form of having rests in the "on pulse" positions, and notes in the "off pulse" positions is syncopation.

Can you define "weak 8th", "on beat", "off pulse" and "downbeat"?

[cryophonik]

In this context, the "pulse" is the quarter notes, because they get the count (i.e., 1,2,3,4). The downbeat is the first beat/quarter note of each measure. The "weak 8th" (or "off-pulse") is the 8th that is between each of the quarter notes/count - i.e., if you count 8th notes as "1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and", the weak 8ths ("off-pulse") are the "ands" and the strong 8ths ("on-pulse") are the 1,2,3,4.

[cryophonik]

A 16th rest on the weak 1/8th, followed by a note on the following 16th is syncopation, though.

Taking it a step further to explain this. If you count sixteenth notes as
"1-e-and-a-2-e-and-a-3-e-and-a-4-e-and-a-",

He's saying that being silent on the "and" but including a note on "a" is an example of syncopation. It's particularly effective when that note is accented and possibly played a *little* late to drive the momentum to the next beat.

[gearwatcher]

Strong 1/8th is on beat. Beat is (in 4/4) a 1/4th, on beat is at the start of the 1/4th. Dowbeats are on 2 and 4 of the 1-a-&-a-2-a-&-a-3-a-&-a-4-a-&-a.

Pulse is steady equidistant notes, say a pulse of 1/8ths or 1/4ths. You can usually tell the steady pulse of the melody. Off-pulse is everything between the pulses.

[Stamped Records]

A 16th rest on the weak 1/8th, followed by a note on the following 16th is syncopation, though.

Taking it a step further to explain this. If you count sixteenth notes as
"1-e-and-a-2-e-and-a-3-e-and-a-4-e-and-a-",

He's saying that being silent on the "and" but including a note on "a" is an example of syncopation. It's particularly effective when that note is accented and possibly played a *little* late to drive the momentum to the next beat.

So it is particularly the "a" that is syncopation but not the "e", and this is only true of there is a rest on the "and"?

[cryophonik]

Naw, that’s just an example. The essential part of syncopation is that it puts the rhythmic accents on weak notes or divisions to make it feel off-time. One way you can envision it is to play or sequence one of your favorite melodies into your DAW along with a drum track (works best if the melody has some dynamics). Then, move the melody notes over by a sixteenth note, or an eighth note, or three sixteenth notes, etc. so that it starts on a weak note or division, and listen to how it’s changed the interaction with drums and gives it an off-time feel.