Hello!
I just bought a plugin and imagine what. I can only install it on two of my PC's and if I want to deactivate one of them, I can't do it, it has to be done by the developer on request.
Is it wrong for me to feel like I am being treated like a criminal who wants to install my legitimate plugins on all my friends and neighbors PC's?
What is the point of not having the freedom to choose where to install it and as many times I want, if the PC is totally mine?
What sense does it make that someone who doesn't want to act right and pirate the software has better conditions? (not counting the money)
Honestly, it seems a nonsense to me and I am quite fed up with it. It makes me feel like the developer thinks I'm a cheater beforehand.
What do you think?
Cheers
About licenses with limitations
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- KVRian
- 1395 posts since 16 Jan, 2004
Hi again, Vanerio 
So, while there's a part of me that agrees that often copy protection feels like a punishment for those who buy legitimate copies and pirates get to do whatever they want, I don't actually agree on this point. The software developer is entitled to set conditions as they see fit. And in all areas of software, within audio and outside, it's common practice to set license/seat limitations. It would be unfair to the software company if a musical school bought a piece of software and installed it on 100 workstations for students.
It's up to us, the buyer, to be aware of the conditions of the license as well as the conditions of the copy protection mechanisms, and then make purchases accordingly. Hence, our conversation about my feelings on certain copy protection mechanisms that I avoid, personally.
If a company has not made it clear on their site about the limitations of the copy protection and license agreement/conditions, we shouldn't purchase their software. In some cases, if the company negligently left out information that is detrimental to the buyer, I feel it's in the right of the buyer to seek a refund. But that, of course, can be tricky.
Some companies will stretch the rules a bit, and if you request, will sometimes let you install on more than 2 machines.
In any case, I hope that your purchase and the limitation of the license doesn't harm what you're trying to do musically
So, while there's a part of me that agrees that often copy protection feels like a punishment for those who buy legitimate copies and pirates get to do whatever they want, I don't actually agree on this point. The software developer is entitled to set conditions as they see fit. And in all areas of software, within audio and outside, it's common practice to set license/seat limitations. It would be unfair to the software company if a musical school bought a piece of software and installed it on 100 workstations for students.
It's up to us, the buyer, to be aware of the conditions of the license as well as the conditions of the copy protection mechanisms, and then make purchases accordingly. Hence, our conversation about my feelings on certain copy protection mechanisms that I avoid, personally.
If a company has not made it clear on their site about the limitations of the copy protection and license agreement/conditions, we shouldn't purchase their software. In some cases, if the company negligently left out information that is detrimental to the buyer, I feel it's in the right of the buyer to seek a refund. But that, of course, can be tricky.
Some companies will stretch the rules a bit, and if you request, will sometimes let you install on more than 2 machines.
In any case, I hope that your purchase and the limitation of the license doesn't harm what you're trying to do musically
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- KVRian
- 1395 posts since 16 Jan, 2004
Just a quick second reply... I should have read a bit more closely. I see that part of the issue is that the de-activation process cannot be done by the user. Yeah, that's not ideal. Sometimes that's because the company doesn't have the infrastructure to do it differently, but often it is a choice by the company, despite having the resources to give that control to the user.
In short: I'm not a fan of that either. And personally, if I have an alternative piece of software available that offers the same functionality, but without those limitations, I'll sell (or abandon, unfortunately, if the software may not be resold) that software.
In short: I'm not a fan of that either. And personally, if I have an alternative piece of software available that offers the same functionality, but without those limitations, I'll sell (or abandon, unfortunately, if the software may not be resold) that software.
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- Banned
- 11467 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland
Sounds like iLok based activation? If that's the case, you can deactivate it yourself on one of the 2 computers and activate on 3rd.vanerio wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:11 pm Hello!
I just bought a plugin and imagine what. I can only install it on two of my PC's and if I want to deactivate one of them, I can't do it, it has to be done by the developer on request.
Is it wrong for me to feel like I am being treated like a criminal who wants to install my legitimate plugins on all my friends and neighbors PC's?
What is the point of not having the freedom to choose where to install it and as many times I want, if the PC is totally mine?
What sense does it make that someone who doesn't want to act right and pirate the software has better conditions? (not counting the money)
Honestly, it seems a nonsense to me and I am quite fed up with it. It makes me feel like the developer thinks I'm a cheater beforehand.
What do you think?
Cheers
But it's a problem when you don't have access to one of those 2 computers anymore. Or if you even just wiped it and installed OS + software clean. I had that and have MPC Software stuck on the same computer that I use, but with previous installation. Akai doesn't respond to support tickets
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 380 posts since 9 Dec, 2014
Hi OzoneJunkie! nice to see you here again!.OzoneJunkie wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:01 pm Just a quick second reply... I should have read a bit more closely. I see that part of the issue is that the de-activation process cannot be done by the user. Yeah, that's not ideal. Sometimes that's because the company doesn't have the infrastructure to do it differently, but often it is a choice by the company, despite having the resources to give that control to the user.
In short: I'm not a fan of that either. And personally, if I have an alternative piece of software available that offers the same functionality, but without those limitations, I'll sell (or abandon, unfortunately, if the software may not be resold) that software.
I don´t disagree much from you. But an user is not a school. Imagine buying some shoes that you can only use at home or at work, cinema forbidden, your girlfriend´s house forbidden... Or send an email to the seller to see if he had a good day and he can change the allowed locations in his excel database. Of course that is my personal opinion, I am just dramatizing.
Licenses are for people who do things right, and should be treated that way.
The company I bought the plugin from did not say anything in its website before buying, not even after...I had to personally ask the developer. But of course it wouldn´t be a problem if at least I could deactivate by myself...When I asked the developer I felt like a criminal that wanted to cheat, and it felt like he would deactivate for me as if he were doing me a favor.
Last edited by vanerio on Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 380 posts since 9 Dec, 2014
It is not ilok, it is not allowed to do it on your own. What you mention about Akai is what I really fear. Imagine if they responded and they treat you like a cheater... It is terrible an no one buying a legit license should never have to go through that. This limitations make no sense in my opinion, it only harms honest people.antic604 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:52 pmSounds like iLok based activation? If that's the case, you can deactivate it yourself on one of the 2 computers and activate on 3rd.vanerio wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:11 pm Hello!
I just bought a plugin and imagine what. I can only install it on two of my PC's and if I want to deactivate one of them, I can't do it, it has to be done by the developer on request.
Is it wrong for me to feel like I am being treated like a criminal who wants to install my legitimate plugins on all my friends and neighbors PC's?
What is the point of not having the freedom to choose where to install it and as many times I want, if the PC is totally mine?
What sense does it make that someone who doesn't want to act right and pirate the software has better conditions? (not counting the money)
Honestly, it seems a nonsense to me and I am quite fed up with it. It makes me feel like the developer thinks I'm a cheater beforehand.
What do you think?
Cheers
But it's a problem when you don't have access to one of those 2 computers anymore. Or if you even just wiped it and installed OS + software clean. I had that and have MPC Software stuck on the same computer that I use, but with previous installation. Akai doesn't respond to support tickets
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- KVRian
- 1395 posts since 16 Jan, 2004
Hivanerio wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:23 pmHi OzoneJunkie! nice to see you here again!.OzoneJunkie wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:01 pm Just a quick second reply... I should have read a bit more closely. I see that part of the issue is that the de-activation process cannot be done by the user. Yeah, that's not ideal. Sometimes that's because the company doesn't have the infrastructure to do it differently, but often it is a choice by the company, despite having the resources to give that control to the user.
In short: I'm not a fan of that either. And personally, if I have an alternative piece of software available that offers the same functionality, but without those limitations, I'll sell (or abandon, unfortunately, if the software may not be resold) that software.
I don´t disagree much from you. But an user is not a school. Imagine buying some shoes that you can only use at home or at work, cinema forbidden, your girlfriend´s house forbidden... Or send an email to the seller to see if he had a good day and he can change the allowed locations in his excel database. Of course that is my personal opinion, I am just dramatizing.
Licenses are for people who do things right, and should be treated that way.
The company I bought the plugin from did not say anything in its website before buying, not even after...I had to personally ask the developer. But of course it wouldn´t be a problem if at least I could deactivate by myself...When I asked the developer I felt like a criminal that wanted to cheat, and it felt like he would deactivate for me as if he were doing me a favor.
nice to see you again too I'd like to see 3 activations per user, generally. I feel like that covers 95% of users - how many people have more than 3 machines? I personally have 2 right now, but I have had 4 working machines at one point in my life.
But yes, not being able to deactivate as a user, and the developer not indicating on their site how deactivation works, feels bad. The developer should at least include that information on their site - no argument from me here on that.
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- KVRAF
- 2473 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest
In the real software world, two seats for the price of one is actually pretty generous. In the olden days of steam-powered Internet, before software could call home, you could, of course, install your software anywhere you wanted, but this made developers very sad. Remember the wonderful kinda shiny black wheel on kinda matte black wheel you used to answer the software challenge? And if you got it wrong, the program would outright call you a pirate? Loved those days. Not.
Two is pretty good: desktop and laptop, or, Mac and PC. If you want more, then you should stick with iLok or similar so you can install it anywhere.
However, the installation policies should be clearly stated, along with OSes, formats, type of copy protection, etc. After being burned a couple of times (mostly my own fault. Naivete. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯), I check all of these things out before I even demo.
Two is pretty good: desktop and laptop, or, Mac and PC. If you want more, then you should stick with iLok or similar so you can install it anywhere.
However, the installation policies should be clearly stated, along with OSes, formats, type of copy protection, etc. After being burned a couple of times (mostly my own fault. Naivete. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯), I check all of these things out before I even demo.
I started on Logic 5 with a PowerBook G4 550Mhz. I now have a MacBook Air M1 and it's ~165x faster! So, why is my music not proportionally better?
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- KVRian
- 1405 posts since 17 Oct, 2018
Livensing can ask sometimes. Like right now I'm having an issue with AutoTune. For some reason on a certain project in Studio One no matter what I do when I load Autotune it takes me to their licensing portal. It doesn't do that in anew project, it doesn't do that in my other DAWs, just this one project and I have no clue as to why. It could be (probably is) an S1 issue as S1 is not the stability piece of software but it still sucks because I've never ran into that issue with any of my other software. If I took the pains of activating my software why is the freaking software checking for licensing on the same machine and it seems to do per instance. If I had a choice I'd drop Autotune just based on this experience.
Studio One // Bitwig // Logic Pro // Ableton // Reason // FLStudio // MPC // Force // Maschine
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 380 posts since 9 Dec, 2014
I think OzoneJunkie and me agree here, We can live with 2-3 computers (I personally don´t understand that though, limiting the user just for the love of limiting). The completly mess comes when the developer does NOT allow deactivating one computer in order to active another one. That is silly.syntonica wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:44 pm In the real software world, two seats for the price of one is actually pretty generous. In the olden days of steam-powered Internet, before software could call home, you could, of course, install your software anywhere you wanted, but this made developers very sad. Remember the wonderful kinda shiny black wheel on kinda matte black wheel you used to answer the software challenge? And if you got it wrong, the program would outright call you a pirate? Loved those days. Not.
Two is pretty good: desktop and laptop, or, Mac and PC. If you want more, then you should stick with iLok or similar so you can install it anywhere.
However, the installation policies should be clearly stated, along with OSes, formats, type of copy protection, etc. After being burned a couple of times (mostly my own fault. Naivete. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯), I check all of these things out before I even demo.
Take a look at antic604´s message about Akai. The legit user SHOULD never have to go through that.
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- KVRAF
- 2473 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest
it's really not limiting just for the love of it. If I run a studio and have 5 machines that can all be used simultaneously, I really should have a five-seat license. I should not just install the same software 5 times and have at it. That's why I say two seats is pretty generous.vanerio wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:00 pm I think OzoneJunkie and me agree here, We can live with 2-3 computers (I personally don´t understand that though, limiting the user just for the love of limiting). The completly mess comes when the developer does NOT allow deactivating one computer in order to active another one. That is silly.
That is sort of weird, though, about deactivation, but there may be technical problems with how licenses are rechecked by the software. However, I do agree you should be able to de-license the software from inside itself. That way, the mothership knows as does that copy.
Personally, I just try to select software that uses keyfiles or simple serials that don't involve calling home.
I started on Logic 5 with a PowerBook G4 550Mhz. I now have a MacBook Air M1 and it's ~165x faster! So, why is my music not proportionally better?
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 380 posts since 9 Dec, 2014
Well, If you were rich and wanted to have 5 machines, what is the problem if they are yours?
Remember that licenses are for legit people, for their legit machines and of course for legit use. Yes, it is limiting just for the love of it. It is considering the user a cheater beforehand. It is a nonsense, because pirates don´t buy licenses to install them all around. They just enter their favorite torrent indexer... Limiting the legit user is not funny and it is a nonsense that makes the pirates laugh. That is the truth.
Imagine if your internet providers only let you use the network on 2 devices. Nonsense. Pirates laugh.
Remember that licenses are for legit people, for their legit machines and of course for legit use. Yes, it is limiting just for the love of it. It is considering the user a cheater beforehand. It is a nonsense, because pirates don´t buy licenses to install them all around. They just enter their favorite torrent indexer... Limiting the legit user is not funny and it is a nonsense that makes the pirates laugh. That is the truth.
Imagine if your internet providers only let you use the network on 2 devices. Nonsense. Pirates laugh.
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- KVRAF
- 3496 posts since 30 Dec, 2014
What plugin and from what developer are you having the problem with ?vanerio wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:21 pm Well, If you were rich and wanted to have 5 machines, what is the problem if they are yours?
Remember that licenses are for legit people, for their legit machines and of course for legit use. Yes, it is limiting just for the love of it. It is considering the user a cheater beforehand. It is a nonsense, because pirates don´t buy licenses to install them all around. They just enter their favorite torrent indexer... Limiting the legit user is not funny and it is a nonsense that makes the pirates laugh. That is the truth.
Imagine if your internet providers only let you use the network on 2 devices. Nonsense. Pirates laugh.
Have you received any response by email or other method you have used to have your licence deactivated, since your communication ? I would give them a few days to reply if they have not. If they use FB, contact them again and forward your request but do this politely, because they won't respond well if you don't and will probably ignore you or cut you off completely. If they refuse to help you in any way, you can take various actions depending on when you bought the plugin. For example, Native Instruments has a two week refund policy in which to reverse your purchase.
If the developer / seller of the plugin is not happy to refund you because of the lack of information that was provided on the site that explains the terms of use then you are within your rights to be proactive in warning others by any legal means necessary of the nature in which the developer / seller is unable to provide to the requirements you desire in a satisfactory way. If you make a youtube video for example, ensure that you provide evidence to back up your claims.
If you failed to read any terms and conditions, then this is on you. If the terms and conditions fail to explicitly highlight the conditions of activations you can have, then you can use this as evidence in your dispute.
If the plugin can be activated, then deactivation should be in place to allow you to deactivate it, either from the plugin itself or vie the website you bought it from, of which you will have an account with.
Whoever the developer is, it's in the interest of them to address any problem you have and properly.
If there is no resolution, then use this knowledge for your own future reference and others.
KVR S1-Thread | The Intrancersonic-Design Source > Program Resource | Studio One Resource | Music Gallery | 2D / 3D Sci-fi Art | GUI Projects | Animations | Photography | Film Docs | 80's Cartoons | Games | Music Hardware |
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- KVRAF
- 9146 posts since 7 Oct, 2005
Which DAW is that?
I have Bitwig with 3 computers limitations, but even if I activate it on fourth, it is not a problem as it overwrite one of the activations.
The other limited one is Cubase Elements (one computer), but I have Pro with dongle and a switch for two computers (up to 4) that share the dongle and other USB devices.
What else? Oh Reason is shit with its protection, but I haven't tried to install it on more than 2 platforms.
Ableton Live doesn't have a problem I think. It never stopped me to authorize it on 3 computers, but many said that they can write to its support and get offline authorisation.
So, which DAW is that?
I have Bitwig with 3 computers limitations, but even if I activate it on fourth, it is not a problem as it overwrite one of the activations.
The other limited one is Cubase Elements (one computer), but I have Pro with dongle and a switch for two computers (up to 4) that share the dongle and other USB devices.
What else? Oh Reason is shit with its protection, but I haven't tried to install it on more than 2 platforms.
Ableton Live doesn't have a problem I think. It never stopped me to authorize it on 3 computers, but many said that they can write to its support and get offline authorisation.
So, which DAW is that?
Using: Cubase Pro 15, Reason 13, Tascam US-4x4HR, MODX6, DM12D, LaunchKey 49, Yamaha guitar(Pacifica 612v) and bass (BB234) and some virtual instruments and synths.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 380 posts since 9 Dec, 2014
Sorry guys, I think I wrote in the wrong subforum. It is not a DAW, as I mentioned it is a plugin.
It is fx23 Psyscope Pro. Now, I don´t want to harm the developer, as I really consider this a great great plugin, it works fantastic for me, and it is cheap. My criticisms and concerns are only directed at the licensing, not only of this company, but in general.
Yes, I contacted the developer and he replied that the request must be submitted to him personally and that he may be able to do it if you buy a new PC. Now, I would like to be able to deactivate from my PCs even if I don't buy another one, and of course by me.
But as I said, the main criticism is about licensing policies. No other product (I mean physical products mainly) purchased has these ridiculous limitations.
I am VERY grateful to companies that offer understandable licenses that allow you to install them wherever you want, as long as it is legitimate (legitimate!!!!!) like MeldaProduction, Image-Line, etc. They are fantastic.
It is fx23 Psyscope Pro. Now, I don´t want to harm the developer, as I really consider this a great great plugin, it works fantastic for me, and it is cheap. My criticisms and concerns are only directed at the licensing, not only of this company, but in general.
Yes, I contacted the developer and he replied that the request must be submitted to him personally and that he may be able to do it if you buy a new PC. Now, I would like to be able to deactivate from my PCs even if I don't buy another one, and of course by me.
But as I said, the main criticism is about licensing policies. No other product (I mean physical products mainly) purchased has these ridiculous limitations.
I am VERY grateful to companies that offer understandable licenses that allow you to install them wherever you want, as long as it is legitimate (legitimate!!!!!) like MeldaProduction, Image-Line, etc. They are fantastic.