KVR Audio

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:06 am

Hi there,

I have just replaced my monitor today. I had an excellent AOC 32" 1440p 144hz monitor that I replaced today with Dell 27" 4k monitor, which also seems excellent

I didn't have any problem with any DAW with my previous monitor, but as Windows 10 defaults to 150% and some DAWs support HiDPI, I feel it worth it to save some physical place and have more space on screen.

Unfortunately, it seems not all my tools will be usable. Anyway, I have these notes about some of the DAWs installed in Windows (later, I will see how things are with Mac and Linux):

1. Cubase 11: it's usable but blurry text little bit as it I couldn't find the HiDPI option.

2. Studio One v5 (Artist): looks very nice with the HiDPI but some old synths are too small and not usable at all (like FM8, Massive, Absynth5, etc).

3. Live 11: looks great

and the plugins are in the correct usable size. But I had a crash, I don't know if it's related to HiDPI or one of the plugins in my project!

4. Bitwig Studio v4: looks great

and no problem at all with 3rd party plugins. It's plugins are all usable (better visibility than Live's plugins).

So far, I have tested those DAWs in Windows. Glad that I didn't sell Live and Bitwig is a great DAW overall

What's your experience with 4k monitors (especially the 27" ones), and how is your DAW showing there?

xbitz · Post by **xbitz** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:12 am

not DAW FLS has been vectorized so works fine, the only issue was the FabFilters plugins, have had to modify win registry entries by hand, https://www.fabfilter.com/forum/topic/2604/high

Hi,

Our plugins require Windows 8.1 or Windows 10 for High DPI support, as they use the new per-monitor features in Windows 8.1. We could adapt them to also work on Windows 7, but I remember (apparently incorrectly) that 200% scaling wasn't supported on Windows 7.

There is a registry option that you can use to force 200% scaling which might work for you. To set this, click the Start button, type 'regedit', Enter to open the Registry Editor. (You might have to give permission to continue.) Navigate to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\FabFilter\Pro-Q\2.0. Double-click the RetinaEnabled value, and change its value to 200, making sure that the Decimal option is checked. You can repeat this for all the plugins that you want to use.

Or you could just do the free upgrade to Windows 10. BTW, I agree with you that Studio One's High DPI support is top-notch.

Cheers,

Frederik (FabFilter) — Dec 16, 2015

also think BWS works/looks best

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:18 am

Both Cubase and Studio One will adjust to the DPI scaling and both have an option to independently scale plugins that don't scale automatically.

https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro/v11/e ... ing%2Chigh

https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro/v11/e ... enu_r.html

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:56 am

Yes it seems Bitwig/Live are the best here!

Thanks for the Cubase links. I found the HiDPI option in Cubase and it looks fantastic now

There is also an option to let the plugin to be resized (little bit blurry like in Live and Bitwig, but not the DAWs fault). Anyway, I couldn't find such option in Studio One! The plugins still in their tiny size! Not a problem, as Studio One is not my main DAW, but it is nice to know.

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:02 am

EnGee wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:56 am...Anyway, I couldn't find such option in Studio One! The plugins still in their tiny size! Not a problem, as Studio One is not my main DAW, but it is nice to know.

As long as you have high-DPI in S1 enabled...

1.jpg

...you should see additional scaling option for DPI unaware plugins:

2.png

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:30 am

The highest resolution I'd switch to is 1440p. Anything else doesn't make sense to me, with the size of monitor I can mount here (27" max), and the amount of processing power I have available for running game etc. Not to talk about apps which aren't adapted to high DPI etc.

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:41 am

chk071 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:30 amThe highest resolution I'd switch to is 1440p. Anything else doesn't make sense to me, with the size of monitor I can mount here (27" max), and the amount of processing power I have available for running game etc. Not to talk about apps which aren't adapted to high DPI etc.

Obviously it's highly subjective, but I see a huge difference in how quickly my eyes get tired between same size 1080p and 4K screen (in favour of the latter, obviously). And we're talking about a 2D DAWs, that at best will take 10-20% of embedded GPU power on an i5-7 processor and even less on a discrete GPU.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:26 am

antic604 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:41 am
chk071 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:30 amThe highest resolution I'd switch to is 1440p. Anything else doesn't make sense to me, with the size of monitor I can mount here (27" max), and the amount of processing power I have available for running game etc. Not to talk about apps which aren't adapted to high DPI etc.
Obviously it's highly subjective, but I see a huge difference in how quickly my eyes get tired between same size 1080p and 4K screen (in favour of the latter, obviously).

Not so obvious. Smaller screen elements = more eye strain. Unless you're talking about a really big screen vs. a really small screen here.

For example, before the 24.5" screen I'm using now, I had a 22" screen, both full HD, and, I noticed considerably more eye strain, and fatigue than I experience now. In fact, it's completely gone now.

Regardless of whether you scale the fonts or not, there'll always be apps which don't really work well with higher resolutions, and some screen elements will be small anyway.

4K IMO only makes sense with screens 32" and upwards. YMMV. IMO, many are simply blinded by the amount of sharpness, and forget that it's not only about that.

Anyway, for my personal needs, 4K is completely out of discussion anyway. The computer I will probably buy next year simply won't handle that in modern games. So, it's useless.

mcbpete · Post by **mcbpete** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:50 am

Have three DAWs (Jeskola Buzz, Reaper & Ableton) running at 4k but at 200% Windows scaling. Ableton runs perfectly but Reaper I have to run in 'hiDPI unaware' or the GUI gets glitchy (the collision between GUI elements is off position from the visuals) and Buzz I have to run in Compability/High DPI Scaling Override or everything is super tiny (- not a DAW but I have to do the same thing with MameUI too)

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:55 am

Well, it is really not an easy topic and I can't generalise easily!
For example, now I'm testing on m1 macbook air and at first I couldn't make the monitor displays anything from the Mac! However, I noticed that I didn't change the HDMI cable, so I changed it with the one came with the monitor and ... Wow! I can't imagine that there is more clarity with this monitor except maybe iMac itself!

The display was at default and the size I think like 1080p! But the font is super clear and everything looks so nice! Much better than my previous 32" 1440p. Now, why I didn't purchase 1080p? It is because I wanted to use 4k with my PS5 and the coming Xbox Series S consoles! It also better to use 4k and scaled down to 1080p (Switch!) than 1440p to 1080p.

Here is how it looks here with me now (I did lower the export of jpeg quality so the size kept accepted, but it is clearer in reality)

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:40 pm

chk071 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:26 am
antic604 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:41 am
chk071 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:30 amThe highest resolution I'd switch to is 1440p. Anything else doesn't make sense to me, with the size of monitor I can mount here (27" max), and the amount of processing power I have available for running game etc. Not to talk about apps which aren't adapted to high DPI etc.
Obviously it's highly subjective, but I see a huge difference in how quickly my eyes get tired between same size 1080p and 4K screen (in favour of the latter, obviously).
Not so obvious. Smaller screen elements = more eye strain. Unless you're talking about a really big screen vs. a really small screen here.

I'm talking 1080p 100% vs. 4K 200% (all the GUI elements are the same size).

The difference is obvious and very positive for 4K screen, assuming both panels are of the same or very similar quality (brightness, contrast, glare, refresh rate, colour range). And yes, it's mostly about the extra sharpnes that translates into extra detail with DAWs and plugins that can take advantage of it. I simply stay away of the ones that don't.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:33 pm

One advantage of 4K (as opposed to 1440p, for example) is that you actually can run 1080p, and it doesn't look much worse, because the monitor doesn't have to interpolate. That way you can play games in 1080p as well, if your computer can't handle 4K.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:35 pm

EnGee wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:55 am Here is how it looks here with me now (I did lower the export of jpeg quality so the size kept accepted, but it is clearer in reality)

I just took a look at it on my full HD screen, and, it doesn't look any sharper!

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:40 pm

chk071 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:35 pm
EnGee wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:55 am Here is how it looks here with me now (I did lower the export of jpeg quality so the size kept accepted, but it is clearer in reality)
I just took a look at it on my full HD screen, and, it doesn't look any sharper!

There, you've solved it. Everyone back to 1080p screens!

ShawnG · Post by **ShawnG** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:10 pm

4k on a small monitor…. Still wouldn’t recommend it. One subjective reason to use it (omg it’s sharper I think) one objective reason, more screen real estate, which most people find they have to scale everything larger anyway and then lose. So many objective reasons against… the cost, the computer resources used, the problem of dealing with older software not made for it. And most people, at that size, and at normal viewing distances wouldn’t notice the difference anyway. My advice with 4k? Go big, or go home to 1080p

DAWs and 4k, Pros and Cons