KVR Audio

melomood · Post by **melomood** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:27 pm

I heard Bitwig & Live can, but it's mostly slurs being thrown back n forth over the fence

Saffran · Post by **Saffran** » Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:25 am

FL studio has its vsti plugin version.
Works ok with Cakewalk. Should work with most daws.

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:50 am

Some (most?) DAWs support Ableton Link for syncing playback.

Some also support Rewire which offered much more, i.e. actuall routing of MIDI and audio, but the standard was deprecated by Props when Reason v11 was released and it will probably vanish soon (e.g. I believe Live 11 disabled it).

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:30 am

antic604 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:50 am Some (most?) DAWs support Ableton Link for syncing playback.

Some also support Rewire which offered much more, i.e. actuall routing of MIDI and audio, but the standard was deprecated by Props when Reason v11 was released and it will probably vanish soon (e.g. I believe Live 11 disabled it).

Bitwig was the first company to call it dead tech and not even bother implementing it all those years ago, seems they knew something we did not. Live 11 and DP11 both have disabled Rewire. In the case of DP11 a few people were experiencing hard crashes from rewire in a recent update. I can't find a trace of Rewire on Reason Studios site anymore.

It sucks really, it's one of those things that would have been great as a universal standard like MIDI, but being the property on Propellerheads it was deprecated as soon as they turned to VST/AU plug in support for Reason. Which is cool, but it's not the same.

As someone who likes multiple DAWs, rewire was really handy, and you could see how powerful it could be with Reapers advanced rewire slave support. I could rewire Reaper to DP10 and use Reaper to record VST MPE instruments into it's timeline while using DP for all the rest of a song etc. Live 10 introduced Push 2 as a control surface for Live as a slave to DP, Logic etc. It's like as soon as it's starting to get good, it's taken from us.

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:19 am

machinesworking wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:30 am...It's like as soon as it's starting to get good, it's taken from us.

1) In most recent livestream Mattias said that removal of Rewire was necessary to introduce Rack Plugin, because they were - apparently - using the same tech or tech that would interfere with each other. Not sure how accurate is that, but that's the explanation that was given.

2) Wasn't Rewire a pain in the ass, too? I never tried it, but I understand it required you to maintain and keep manually synchronised 2 separate projects in 2 DAWs, you had to launch the DAWs in specific order, not to mention additional CPU & RAM strain of running 2 realtime softwares?

But I also agree. If they'd double down and enhance the standard for example to "trigger" project saving & loading in both DAWs, so that you "felt" you're somehow working with just one DAW and one project; then perhaps it would make a lot more sense?

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:21 am

antic604 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:19 am
machinesworking wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:30 am...It's like as soon as it's starting to get good, it's taken from us.
1) In most recent livestream Mattias said that removal of Rewire was necessary to introduce Rack Plugin, because they were - apparently - using the same tech or tech that would interfere with each other. Not sure how accurate is that, but that's the explanation that was given.

2) Wasn't Rewire a pain in the ass, too? I never tried it, but I understand it required you to maintain and keep manually synchronised 2 separate projects in 2 DAWs, you had to launch the DAWs in specific order, not to mention additional CPU & RAM strain of running 2 realtime softwares?

But I also agree. If they'd double down and enhance the standard for example to "trigger" project saving & loading in both DAWs, so that you "felt" you're somehow working with just one DAW and one project; then perhaps it would make a lot more sense?

1] Makes sense in terms of old code in Reason that made it too problematic to allow both at the same time. Basically there's not any good reason though, rewire was just way to sync DAW timelines, buss audio and allow some midi tracks in one to control the other. It shouldn't be impossible to implement or interfere, on Mac OS anyway, most of that stuff is covered by Core Audio and MIDI, so it's not even reinventing the wheel.

2] Sure, but say you have a song in Live and really want to use functionality in Bitwig, with rewire you could. Or, in the case of Live, the stretching could be used in a song in DP, Logic, Studio One, etc. and you could use the arguably more robust MIDI in those DAWs for most composing. It's an extremely useful idea, but the limitations were too much. Most DAWs lost the ability to host VSTs when in slave mode.

In general though, the idea of a way to sync two daws to a timeline and route audio is a great idea. Ableton Link is a poor excuse compared.

JoseC. · Post by **JoseC.** » Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:22 am

Reaper's Rearoute creates a virtual ASIO driver that can route audio and midi to and from Reaper from any other external app. I use it with VCV Rack and it works fine. I haven't used it to connect another DAW, but I guess it should work, too.

v1o · Post by **v1o** » Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:47 am

The problem with Rewire is that you were limited to only running two DAWs - you couldn't for instance run Cubase, Bitwig, Reason and Ableton together. The other problem was syncing projects together, you'd need a different song file for each DAW, ideally you'd have all the session information in a single project file running in whichever DAW is Rewire master.

Reason Studios should probably have open sourced Rewire if they didn't want to maintain it anymore. It's alot of work for one company to keep updating something that was an industry standard. The community could have added new features such as midi 2.0 and ARM/Apple M1 support.

tor.helge.skei · Post by **tor.helge.skei** » Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:54 am

maybe https://jackaudio.org/faq/about.html

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:05 pm

any with midi.
obvs

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:17 pm

Which DAWs are sentient

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:18 pm

jancivil wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:17 pm Which DAWs are sentient

jackdaws.

lobanov · Post by **lobanov** » Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:37 pm

tor.helge.skei wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:54 am maybe https://jackaudio.org/faq/about.html

I wanted to say about Jack too.

I tried it many years ago, it seemed to work fine but I didn't use it as I didn't need such functionality. But Jack is very powerfull, the logic behind it is very different to what our mainstream OS (Windows and MacOS) offer to us. You just connect different applications, no plugins.

melomood · Post by **melomood** » Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:43 pm

Rewire was what it was. Wanting one program to save the info of two different programs made by different companies is a big ask. Live made rewire a little less pain with the external instrument device. Saving 2 project files with identifying names wasn't back breaking work.

Which DAWs Can Communicate With One Another ?