Best DAW for large take numbers/comping etc.

[ZargonTheMagnificent]

Hello!

I'm having a disaster (again) with Reaper's messed up take handling.

If you have different start and end points for takes, and you record a large number (40 for example) then Reaper is terrible.

If you ever work in this way (not interested in being told not to work in this way) then I'd be super interested in which DAW you use as I'm done with Reaper when I've finished this record.

[imrae]

I don't understand the problem, so there is a high likelihood you will be recommended something equally annoying. How would you like the take-handling to work, and how would this be different from REAPER?

[ZargonTheMagnificent]

I don't understand the problem, so there is a high likelihood you will be recommended something equally annoying. How would you like the take-handling to work, and how would this be different from REAPER?

In Reaper, if your takes aren't a uniform length they become a nightmare, particularly if there are too many to show in a fully expanded (height) track.

My plan was to explode to new tracks to overcome this issue, but there is a 'feature' or bug or design foul-up which means that in this situation if you explode takes to new tracks, the takes don't end up on their own tracks; they're all messed up. Some share with other tracks, some tracks are split over several tracks etc. Utterly random and a total waste of time.

I appreciate that most people probably don't do more than 5 or 10 takes, but I need to be able to comp/edit larger numbers and they aren't going to be uniform in length.

Reaper can't do it. Believe me, I wish it could!

[antic604]

If you ever work in this way (not interested in being told not to work in this way) then I'd be super interested in which DAW you use as I'm done with Reaper when I've finished this record.

Take Studio One for 30-day trial. I only ever made couple of takes, so definitely not "huge numbers" but the workflow is the most intuitive I encountered, so maybe it'll work for you.

[ZargonTheMagnificent]

If you ever work in this way (not interested in being told not to work in this way) then I'd be super interested in which DAW you use as I'm done with Reaper when I've finished this record.

Take Studio One for 30-day trial. I only ever made couple of takes, so definitely not "huge numbers" but the workflow is the most intuitive I encountered, so maybe it'll work for you.

Thanks! I do have a licence already, but haven't taken the plunge. I'll start some experiments I guess...

[arkmabat]

I definitely don't recommend FL for this, though audio recording is getting better.

[imrae]

In Reaper, if your takes aren't a uniform length they become a nightmare, particularly if there are too many to show in a fully expanded (height) track.

"A nightmare" still isn't specific, and it isn't clear how you'd like the behaviour to change.

You might find it helpful to uncheck "display empty take lanes"? This makes some of the overlapping segments easier to interpret.

It takes less than a second to remove unwanted regions with right-drag (to select a rectangular region) and delete, so this can't be the "terrible" "nightmare" you refer to.

If the main problem is the inability to display > 40 takes vertically, I'm curious as to how other DAWs might solve this. In REAPER you can still select the take from the right-click menu - what are the other options?

[ZargonTheMagnificent]

In Reaper, if your takes aren't a uniform length they become a nightmare, particularly if there are too many to show in a fully expanded (height) track.

"A nightmare" still isn't specific, and it isn't clear how you'd like the behaviour to change.

You might find it helpful to uncheck "display empty take lanes"? This makes some of the overlapping segments easier to interpret.

It takes less than a second to remove unwanted regions with right-drag (to select a rectangular region) and delete, so this can't be the "terrible" "nightmare" you refer to.

If the main problem is the inability to display > 40 takes vertically, I'm curious as to how other DAWs might solve this. In REAPER you can still select the take from the right-click menu - what are the other options?

Other DAWs don't have a limit in terms of takes shown since they aren't reliant on the 'container' item system like Reaper is. In S1 for example, the takes each have there own lane, so you can have an number and just scroll if you need to.

An example of Reaper's painfulness in this regard can be seen in this project (you don't need the actual audio to test this) which isn't my project but illustrates a really baffling issue related to take handling.

Note that in the example (already looks a mess, but let's ignore that) there are takes which have different start/end points. They are not uniform.

Now try exploding the takes to new tracks. Look at the utter confusion of takes which SHOULD be one take per track, but some share tracks and some takes are split over more than one track.

Imagine that, but with 40 takes. A mess.

https://stash.reaper.fm/43634/example.rpp

[imrae]

The exploded behaviour seems pretty logical on my screen:

Screenshot from 2021-12-31 11-48-13.png

For each (sliced) item, it explodes all takes to new tracks in the same order as the takes are in the item. Some of the takes are empty, leaving empty regions.

This may not be what you wanted it to do, but it isn't baffling or a bug or a "foul-up". The usual use-case for exploding takes would be layering, in which case this behaviour is convenient. (e.g. Overdub part a few times in loop-recording mode, remove the bad takes, explode, then set pan/volume controls on the resulting tracks.)

In which case, it might be an idea to first clean-up the empty takes with the "remove all empty take lanes" action. Then we don't end up with very many tracks:

Screenshot from 2021-12-31 11-58-01.png

[v1o]

Why don't you use Pro Tools? It's basically a glorified tape recorder so you can make hundreds of takes if that's how you roll.

[v1o]

If you ever work in this way (not interested in being told not to work in this way) then I'd be super interested in which DAW you use as I'm done with Reaper when I've finished this record.

I don't get this. You're asking for help and at the same time you don't want advice on how to change or possibly improve your workflow. Why do you need so many takes? Are these vocals you're recording?

[ZargonTheMagnificent]

The exploded behaviour seems pretty logical on my screen:

Screenshot from 2021-12-31 11-48-13.png

For each (sliced) item, it explodes all takes to new tracks in the same order as the takes are in the item. Some of the takes are empty, leaving empty regions.

This may not be what you wanted it to do, but it isn't baffling or a bug or a "foul-up". The usual use-case for exploding takes would be layering, in which case this behaviour is convenient. (e.g. Overdub part a few times in loop-recording mode, remove the bad takes, explode, then set pan/volume controls on the resulting tracks.)

In which case, it might be an idea to first clean-up the empty takes with the "remove all empty take lanes" action. Then we don't end up with very many tracks:

Screenshot from 2021-12-31 11-58-01.png

Have you looked at the file names? Have a look and then explain why you want
SINGLE takes arbitrarily split across multiple tracks when you explode.

[imrae]

Well, you introduced split points at those places so presumably it's ok to split there. Again, explode isn't really intended for comping.

I'm not just trying to defend REAPER against all-comers here. Clearly there is room for improvement, because they constantly release updates with little quality-of-life tweaks. I'm wondering if there is a bug to avoid and/or report, but it has been difficult to determine that from your posts.

I genuinely use REAPER with dozens of non-overlapping takes and it's never been a big problem. I usually do a quick clean-up around the transitions before choosing takes, which is pretty easy with right-drag + DEL to remove mini-regions.

I think in practice your problem can be solved by deselecting "display empty take lanes" and using the normal take lanes; even with 40 takes overall you won't have so many in any individual region. I can easily fit around 20 on the screen.

[dellboy]

Hello!

I'm having a disaster (again) with Reaper's messed up take handling.

If you have different start and end points for takes, and you record a large number (40 for example) then Reaper is terrible.

If you ever work in this way (not interested in being told not to work in this way) then I'd be super interested in which DAW you use as I'm done with Reaper when I've finished this record.

Excuse my ignorance,I never bother with takes, I just delete and start again until I get it right,but how do you get "different start and end points for takes"?

I thought with takes you set a loop for how many bars you need, and then play the takes and explode them? How do they end up with "different start and end points"?

[ZargonTheMagnificent]

Hello!

I'm having a disaster (again) with Reaper's messed up take handling.

If you have different start and end points for takes, and you record a large number (40 for example) then Reaper is terrible.

If you ever work in this way (not interested in being told not to work in this way) then I'd be super interested in which DAW you use as I'm done with Reaper when I've finished this record.

Excuse my ignorance,I never bother with takes, I just delete and start again until I get it right,but how do you get "different start and end points for takes"?

I thought with takes you set a loop for how many bars you need, and then play the takes and explode them? How do they end up with "different start and end points"?

Different start and ends because dropping in and out to give different comp options for editing later. Doing everything set to the same loop would be a massive time waster.

Reason for high take count is limited studio time, but unlimited editing time. On this occasion 6 tracks to record live parts for in 8 hours; waste of studio time to comp/edit. That can be done later in my project studio (painfully, hence thread).

I was going to use S1, but chickened out at the last minute as I haven't used it with my hardware enough to trust it with mission-critical stuff yet.

In retrospect, I wish I had risked it.