Hey Team,
During lockdown here in New Zealand I've been chipping away an idea I've had for a card 'game' for the music studio. I've made a prototype and before I take it any further, I'm looking for a little feedback!
The card deck has 3 main objectives. Be a source of inspiration to try new tricks in the studio, education on a framework for song building for new producers, and gamify the song making process!
Note: I'm not selling this as a product, I haven't got that far! Depends on what people think.
Please take a look at the video on YouTube and leave a comment there (or here) with your thoughts.
There's a bit more info on the site I banged together.
www.flipspark.net
Thanks guys!
Im making a card game for the studio. Keen on your thoughts on the prototype!
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- KVRer
- 12 posts since 9 Jan, 2022
A card game for the studio you say? www.flipspark.net
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- KVRAF
- 2621 posts since 17 Apr, 2004
I don't know the answer to the question "is there a market for this?", which I think is really what you are asking. But I did find it an interesting concept. It reminded me of 2 things: Oblique (search the KVR database if you don't know it) and some of the user-run contests on the Image-Line Forums.
Oblique, has a similar premise in that there are card decks, but it's much less prescriptive and more suggestive. I've made a track where I used Oblique to decide what to do next, and it was an interesting experience. Having the VST directly in the DAW means it's a lot easier to access than digging out a pack of cards from the bottom of a drawer full of cables. On the other hand, there's probably something nice and maybe even ritualistic about shuffling the cards, drawing them individually and having that whole haptic experience. I don't really know, but maybe the format itself is something to consider, especially from a costs PoV.
The Image-Line forum contests generally have a number of restrictions, typically stock plugins only + other random restrictions or requirements. Things like: no mixer FX; include a backwards melody (i.e. sampled and reversed); include a particular motif; incorporate a particular theme; everything needs to be made from a single sample that you can manipulate at will. You're forced to try out new ways of working rather than always doing things the same way. You could possibly even consider adding "Limitation" cards, possibly as optional "jokers". They're a great way to explore new ways of working, and the ideas you get in order to work within the constraints can stand you in good stead later when working on more "serious" tracks.
So I see the value there. Whether there's a market for a physical card game, is something I am less sure of. Not ruling it out, but I just wonder if it's a little bit of hassle to go and dig out the cards when you feel like it, and I don't think this sort of practice lends itself to be your "standard way of working". It's great for exploration though. I'd definitely expect people to see this more as a "game" that you feel like playing every so often ("I'll give it a go again") than a standard way of making tracks ("first thing I do when making a new track is shuffle the cards" seems unlikely to me). I think physical cards become more interesting if this is the sort of thing you'd play with your band or someone you are collaborating with while taking a break between sessions. There's a whole social aspect to card games after all.
In other words, it's an interesting premise, I get the value proposition ("learn and grow through constraints") and think there's something there. I just don't know how big that market is, nor whether a physical product you need to ship (from NZ?) is the way to go.
Hopefully something for you to at least mull over...
Oblique, has a similar premise in that there are card decks, but it's much less prescriptive and more suggestive. I've made a track where I used Oblique to decide what to do next, and it was an interesting experience. Having the VST directly in the DAW means it's a lot easier to access than digging out a pack of cards from the bottom of a drawer full of cables. On the other hand, there's probably something nice and maybe even ritualistic about shuffling the cards, drawing them individually and having that whole haptic experience. I don't really know, but maybe the format itself is something to consider, especially from a costs PoV.
The Image-Line forum contests generally have a number of restrictions, typically stock plugins only + other random restrictions or requirements. Things like: no mixer FX; include a backwards melody (i.e. sampled and reversed); include a particular motif; incorporate a particular theme; everything needs to be made from a single sample that you can manipulate at will. You're forced to try out new ways of working rather than always doing things the same way. You could possibly even consider adding "Limitation" cards, possibly as optional "jokers". They're a great way to explore new ways of working, and the ideas you get in order to work within the constraints can stand you in good stead later when working on more "serious" tracks.
So I see the value there. Whether there's a market for a physical card game, is something I am less sure of. Not ruling it out, but I just wonder if it's a little bit of hassle to go and dig out the cards when you feel like it, and I don't think this sort of practice lends itself to be your "standard way of working". It's great for exploration though. I'd definitely expect people to see this more as a "game" that you feel like playing every so often ("I'll give it a go again") than a standard way of making tracks ("first thing I do when making a new track is shuffle the cards" seems unlikely to me). I think physical cards become more interesting if this is the sort of thing you'd play with your band or someone you are collaborating with while taking a break between sessions. There's a whole social aspect to card games after all.
In other words, it's an interesting premise, I get the value proposition ("learn and grow through constraints") and think there's something there. I just don't know how big that market is, nor whether a physical product you need to ship (from NZ?) is the way to go.
Hopefully something for you to at least mull over...
Voted KVR's resident drunk Robert Smith impersonator (thanks Frantz!)
https://open.spotify.com/artist/2myYesRBRgQB3LkZzEYdt5 | https://soundcloud.com/steevm/
https://open.spotify.com/artist/2myYesRBRgQB3LkZzEYdt5 | https://soundcloud.com/steevm/
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- addled muppet weed
- 111294 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
oblique was based on eno, oblique strategies. less "music suggestion" and more "vague suggestion to trigger imagination".
i do agree, maybe an app in this day and age, that can also be updated with new "cards" over time maybe?
as for market, i couldn't say, i do like the idea, it's fun, but it's not useful to me personally as it seems more mainstream.
the cards (physical) i could see as xmas stocking fillers for musicians, but the app would be my suggestion.
i do agree, maybe an app in this day and age, that can also be updated with new "cards" over time maybe?
as for market, i couldn't say, i do like the idea, it's fun, but it's not useful to me personally as it seems more mainstream.
the cards (physical) i could see as xmas stocking fillers for musicians, but the app would be my suggestion.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 12 posts since 9 Jan, 2022
Interesting! I haven't seen Oblique before, but just had a google and I see now. Oblique seems a touch higher level, but a cool idea too. I might try and grab one and see if I can borrow some ideas.
I have started thinking of a potential 'expansion' that could follow launch, where creative challenges could be it's own suit. Great feedback guys!
Re the app, it's on the cards down the road I think. Pun intended. Would just need to find somebody who could make it!
I have started thinking of a potential 'expansion' that could follow launch, where creative challenges could be it's own suit. Great feedback guys!
Re the app, it's on the cards down the road I think. Pun intended. Would just need to find somebody who could make it!
A card game for the studio you say? www.flipspark.net
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
"Pun intended. Would just need to find somebody who could make it!"
have you come to the right place
Best wishes on your game
have you come to the right place
Best wishes on your game
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- KVRian
- 873 posts since 9 Jun, 2020
I think it's a great idea. You might want to try to think of ways to turn it into an actual game as well as a creative prompt. The obvious but slightly boring thing would be to create a standard 52 card deck but with the prompts, which would mean you could use it for patience or poker as well as a creative tool. But it would give it an extra use so people might be more likely to use it or buy it.
Or you could come up with a different type of deck, like Uno, or Exploding Kittens or something like that. Which would be harder and more risky, but would create more of a brand for you. And I suspect that versions tailored for songwriters and live bands would be popular too. Very happy to do some testing when you reach that stage.
Or you could come up with a different type of deck, like Uno, or Exploding Kittens or something like that. Which would be harder and more risky, but would create more of a brand for you. And I suspect that versions tailored for songwriters and live bands would be popular too. Very happy to do some testing when you reach that stage.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 12 posts since 9 Jan, 2022
True. Flick me a DM, you are now a tester (and anybody else who wants to be!)Double Tap wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:05 am I think it's a great idea. You might want to try to think of ways to turn it into an actual game as well as a creative prompt. The obvious but slightly boring thing would be to create a standard 52 card deck but with the prompts, which would mean you could use it for patience or poker as well as a creative tool. But it would give it an extra use so people might be more likely to use it or buy it.
Or you could come up with a different type of deck, like Uno, or Exploding Kittens or something like that. Which would be harder and more risky, but would create more of a brand for you. And I suspect that versions tailored for songwriters and live bands would be popular too. Very happy to do some testing when you reach that stage.
A card game for the studio you say? www.flipspark.net
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- KVRist
- 157 posts since 30 Dec, 2020
looks neat. i'd probably prefer a variation where you draw two or three cards and pick one, instead of just getting the one decided for you. some agency to turn it into more of an actual game and not just a randomness generator. but that's easy enough to add as a house rule if you want to keep the core as simple as possible.
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- KVRAF
- 8074 posts since 9 Jan, 2003 from Saint Louis MO
Check out Patch: The Card Game -- It's like this for modular synthesis. It looked fun in a video, though personally Idon't actually enjoy using it in practice. No regrets about buying it though, the two creators behind it are awesome people and I don't mind supporting them.