Why does most electronic Industrial music follow such a similar formula?

[Synthack]

No really, it's rare to find something that isn't 4 on the floor that isn't compressed to crap with a bunch of distorted vocals.

Probably going to be a unpopular opinion, but still give me examples of new fresh changes that don't sound like the classic formula.

This video kind of showcases how easy it to make too.



I know there are lots of other more niche genres, but it's unfortunate that most industrial music is associated with this EBM garbage. Yes I think EBM is nowhere as good as industrial rock\metal that uses electronic elements.

I think some of the better stuff is covered by rock bands who actually experiment a bit more. I really like NIN, Ministry and KMFDM in how they added non-synthetic instruments to the mix. This kind of stuff is very refreshing. It's probably why I've always been a huge fan of Trent Reznors work because he adds a bunch of different musical styles into his sound.

Most of it sounds the same like Techno music basically. It usually covers lyrical themes far more complex than anything that comes from techno, so why don't people experiment a bit more than the typical 4 on the floor beats?

There is some stuff now a days that is just being edgy for the sake of being edgy too and it makes them come across as edgelord posers. Also why is there such a huge connection to Far-right ideologies being played with in this genre? Is this just for the sake of being edgy? It just comes across as cringy.

also before you go about trying to hunt me down for this, I am actually a pretty big Industrial fan and grew up on the genre.

The people who started this made some cool stuff, but it's disappointing the formula hasn't evolved much. Is this the appeal? It just gets kind of old fast.

These are classic songs which i think helped define the genre, but what has changed?
I have been skipping through these and TBH a LOT of them sound the same..

[machinesworking]

Hmm? it's like every other genre that gets formulaic, you're specifically talking about EBM here from what I can tell, which is naturally pretty limited. Front 242 and Skinny Puppy opened the doors for Industrial to be dance music exclusively. Not that Cabaret Voltaire's and Psychic TV's Acid House phase helped.

Listening to your music now, it would be considered Industrial, but more like late 70's early 80's style, which is great. The real problem is intellectual, Skinny Puppy brought in the goth crowd, lovely people, but filled with superstitious beliefs and vain scene airheads. Early Industrial was intellectual and absolutely transgressive, the type you're complaining about is club music for misfits who want to belong to something. I can't be upset by that, and they do occasionally release something decent.

I've played some form of Industrial music since the 80's, but I never fit in with the crowd, because I'm not a goth, I don't drink or dance on a regular basis, and I don't care about fashion. I feel you but it's like kicking water uphill, look at the state of Indie, rock, dance music in general. Most people attempting to squarely fit into a genre are terribly boring.

On the other hand if you want what I would consider a more appropriate take on older Industrial blended with modern genres don't look at EBM, Look towards Skynd, i3Peak etc. Genre splitting bands tend to get it right, but if you want to sound exactly like Suicide Commando from 15 years ago, you're doing it wrong.

I hate that what you do and other more Experimental Noise bands are not considered Industrial anymore because I love the term and experimental noise just sounds silly to say, but it is what it is. Blame Cabaret Voltaire.

[machinesworking]

Here's IMO the actual musical progression from Skinny Puppy, Throbbing Gristle, and the last couple decades of rock and dance music.

[Constructed Identity]

It's because bands don't really exist now
No, it is because most of it always sucked, you just never heard the worse stuff. The best of it is remembered and it colors your perception.
The first point is also true, but there is more to it : capitalism destroys radicalism, radical art.
People don't buy it. It goes away.

[machinesworking]

i3Peak

[Synthack]

Hmm? it's like every other genre that gets formulaic, you're specifically talking about EBM here from what I can tell, which is naturally pretty limited. Front 242 and Skinny Puppy opened the doors for Industrial to be dance music exclusively. Not that Cabaret Voltaire's and Psychic TV's Acid House phase helped.

Listening to your music now, it would be considered Industrial, but more like late 70's early 80's style, which is great. The real problem is intellectual, Skinny Puppy brought in the goth crowd, lovely people, but filled with superstitious beliefs and vain scene airheads. Early Industrial was intellectual and absolutely transgressive, the type you're complaining about is club music for misfits who want to belong to something. I can't be upset by that, and they do occasionally release something decent.

I've played some form of Industrial music since the 80's, but I never fit in with the crowd, because I'm not a goth, I don't drink or dance on a regular basis, and I don't care about fashion. I feel you but it's like kicking water uphill, look at the state of Indie, rock, dance music in general. Most people attempting to squarely fit into a genre are terribly boring.

On the other hand if you want what I would consider a more appropriate take on older Industrial blended with modern genres don't look at EBM, Look towards Skynd, i3Peak etc. Genre splitting bands tend to get it right, but if you want to sound exactly like Suicide Commando from 15 years ago, you're doing it wrong.

I hate that what you do and other more Experimental Noise bands are not considered Industrial anymore because I love the term and experimental noise just sounds silly to say, but it is what it is. Blame Cabaret Voltaire.

Thanks for checking my stuff out, yah i just feel kind of like an outcast and wonder if it's just cause I don't just focus on trying to perfect a 4 on the floor beat with angry vocals.

There are times when this music is actually very good to listen to, but it just seems to not fulfill my musical desires for a full album listening if you know what i mean.

I guess in a club context this might be great stuff to dance to, but it completely feels less meaningful when it's played for a bunch of drugged up people who are there to dress up and dance.

I'm sure it's an artform to do and i'm not gonna say it's super easy but it lacks so many new forms of musical ideas. So by the time you are on track 3 you want to skiip to some other genre.

I kind of like the direction that a lot of Hiphop has taken by combining modern sounds and experimenting with new sounds, some of it even industrial sounding in nature.

Here's IMO the actual musical progression from Skinny Puppy, Throbbing Gristle, and the last couple decades of rock and dance music.

This stuff is actually really good! They are taking ideas and evolving them and making it work.

I'll have to listen to more SKYND!

[dayjob]

most of _everything_ sucks though.. so why should electronic industrial be any different?

there's really only a sliver of anything that's any good or has a possibility of being 'permanent'.

[Synthack]

i3Peak

Yes this stuff is great, I guess I just havn't been digging enough. It's pretty much the kind of stuff i'm looking for.

[Synthack]

most of _everything_ sucks though.. so why should electronic industrial be any different?

there's really only a sliver of anything that's any good or has a possibility of being 'permanent'.

You aren't wrong, but sometimes an artist nails a formula that works great and doesn't sounds fresh and new.

I remember hearing this and thought it was amazing. It sounded more industrial than most industrial electronic music and I don't think APC is really considered a industrial band.

[BONES]

Probably going to be a unpopular opinion, but still give me examples of new fresh changes that don't sound like the classic formula.

Are you f**king serious? The most obvious example for me is NOVAkILL (obviously) -



Or there is Dance or Die -



How about Nitzer Ebb -



Armageddon Dildos are another favourite -



Lastly, the incomparable Die Krupps -



No trance leads, not much distortion on the vocals, pure EBM.

This video kind of showcases how easy it to make too.

Hardly. No vocals, not structure. To me it is more like a tutorial on how to make dance music.

Yes I think EBM is nowhere as good as industrial rock\metal that uses electronic elements.

That's because you don't seem to know what EBM is.

I really like NIN and KMFDM in how they added non-synthetic instruments to the mix. This kind of stuff is very refreshing. It's probably why I've always been a huge fan of Trent Reznors work because he adds a bunch of different musical styles into his sound.

NIN is just a rock band and has been for the last 20 years. KMFDM seem to be moving more into electronic territory these days, and their music is much better for it.

Most of it sounds the same like Techno music basically.

That's because techno and trance both came out of EBM. That said, what you're talking about seems more like AggroTech to me, which is definitely not EBM.

why don't people experiment a bit more than the typical 4 on the floor beats?

Some of us do but the singles are always going to be for the dancefloor so that's mostly what you get to hear. But that doesn't stop us doing other things -

The people who started this made some cool stuff, but it's disappointing the formula hasn't evolved much.

It has evolved plenty, into AggroTech and SynthePop and all kinds of other stuff but there is still plenty of proper EBM being made if you go looking. For the record, Skinny Puppy were never an EBM band.

[Synthack]

@Bones I quickly listened to a few seconds of each track you presented, and they all sound very much the same except your last one which was interesting. Out of all the 4 on the floor examples presented i thought the Nitzer Ebb stuff was probably the best. However even that gets boring after about a minute.

I also know Skinny puppy isn't EBM but i was making an argument that there is way too much of that shit now whenever I look up electronic industrial.

[machinesworking]

Thanks for checking my stuff out, yah i just feel kind of like an outcast and wonder if it's just cause I don't just focus on trying to perfect a 4 on the floor beat with angry vocals.

There are times when this music is actually very good to listen to, but it just seems to not fulfill my musical desires for a full album listening if you know what i mean.

I guess in a club context this might be great stuff to dance to, but it completely feels less meaningful when it's played for a bunch of drugged up people who are there to dress up and dance.

I'm sure it's an artform to do and i'm not gonna say it's super easy but it lacks so many new forms of musical ideas. So by the time you are on track 3 you want to skiip to some other genre.

That's me with most bands in general. Off the top of my head only Throbbing Gristle, Godflesh, and Pink Floyd before Roger Waters left released full albums I could listen to end to end without skipping songs.

I kind of like the direction that a lot of Hiphop has taken by combining modern sounds and experimenting with new sounds, some of it even industrial sounding in nature.

Here's IMO the actual musical progression from Skinny Puppy, Throbbing Gristle, and the last couple decades of rock and dance music.

This stuff is actually really good! They are taking ideas and evolving them and making it work.

I'll have to listen to more SKYND!

Hip Hop always borrowed from Industrial, the guys behind Public enemy talked about it. Almost every breakdance crew in the 80's used Kraftwerk's Numbers in their routine. Hip Hop also used to be much better.

Constructed Identity did have a point though, we remember the good groups, and forget their terrible records. Most music is not that great and you have to sort through it to find the gems.

Skynd are fantastic, I'm pretty certain it's a side project for some drummer in a famous Metal band or another, coupled with the classically trained singer and every song being about a killer it's a solid act. every song has a video, only 8 songs so far though in over 2 years, hence the side project guess.

I3Peak are also really really good, less of a cartoon act than Skynd, with a broad range of style as well, obviously more House sounding etc. Their lyrics have gotten them in trouble in Russia, anti Putin etc.

It was cool to find this stuff after years of bad House, Nu Metal, Emo, etc. etc.

[Synthack]

Thanks for checking my stuff out, yah i just feel kind of like an outcast and wonder if it's just cause I don't just focus on trying to perfect a 4 on the floor beat with angry vocals.

There are times when this music is actually very good to listen to, but it just seems to not fulfill my musical desires for a full album listening if you know what i mean.

I guess in a club context this might be great stuff to dance to, but it completely feels less meaningful when it's played for a bunch of drugged up people who are there to dress up and dance.

I'm sure it's an artform to do and i'm not gonna say it's super easy but it lacks so many new forms of musical ideas. So by the time you are on track 3 you want to skiip to some other genre.

That's me with most bands in general. Off the top of my head only Throbbing Gristle, Godflesh, and Pink Floyd before Roger Waters left released full albums I could listen to end to end without skipping songs.

I kind of like the direction that a lot of Hiphop has taken by combining modern sounds and experimenting with new sounds, some of it even industrial sounding in nature.

Here's IMO the actual musical progression from Skinny Puppy, Throbbing Gristle, and the last couple decades of rock and dance music.

This stuff is actually really good! They are taking ideas and evolving them and making it work.

I'll have to listen to more SKYND!

Hip Hop always borrowed from Industrial, the guys behind Public enemy talked about it. Almost every breakdance crew in the 80's used Kraftwerk's Numbers in their routine. Hip Hop also used to be much better.

Constructed Identity did have a point though, we remember the good groups, and forget their terrible records. Most music is not that great and you have to sort through it to find the gems.

Skynd are fantastic, I'm pretty certain it's a side project for some drummer in a famous Metal band or another, coupled with the classically trained singer and every song being about a killer it's a solid act. every song has a video, only 8 songs so far though in over 2 years, hence the side project guess.

I3Peak are also really really good, less of a cartoon act than Skynd, with a broad range of style as well, obviously more House sounding etc. Their lyrics have gotten them in trouble in Russia, anti Putin etc.

It was cool to find this stuff after years of bad House, Nu Metal, Emo, etc. etc.

Never knew Hiphop borrowed so much from Industrial but it makes sense.

I thought parts of KORN Path to totality sounded quite industrial.

[melomood]

It's because bands don't really exist now
No, it is because most of it always sucked, you just never heard the worse stuff. The best of it is remembered and it colors your perception.
The first point is also true, but there is more to it : capitalism destroys radicalism, radical art.
People don't buy it. It goes away.

Radical art destroys itself by becoming another commodity to be sold

[experimental.crow]

It's because bands don't really exist now
No, it is because most of it always sucked, you just never heard the worse stuff. The best of it is remembered and it colors your perception.
The first point is also true, but there is more to it : capitalism destroys radicalism, radical art.
People don't buy it. It goes away.

Radical art destroys itself by becoming another commodity to be sold

the television will not be revolutionized !..