Reason refills vs sample tank

[miziq]

Hi Squids,

can you truly tell me what is the quiality and difference betwen reason refills and banks in other formats. Do you know that any one use refills in studio for pro use. I really enjoy simplicity of reason and like kind of workstation concept.

So does your libaries loose something when converting them to refills. You surelly have most experiance with this.

If diffrence is that big than i might have to go other route like sampletank, hypersonics.

One more thing how would reason with SR refills compare to hypersonic.

Thank you in advance..

[Squids]

The sample production is the same high quality stuff we always do. The differences between Reason and SampleTank are mixed. Sometimes SampleTank is just ballsier and of course you have the built-in effects, but then sometimes NNXT is efficient on the CPU and easy for doing certain types of things... to be honest I like using both! They are very different.

As far as comparing to Hypersonic, one of the main differences with SR refills and/or our stuff for SampleTank is that you have much larger samples and more flexibility to add more to your set up with our stuff. Hypersonic has one 250 meg set compressed and a few extra add ons and that's it. I find Halion 3 more flexible and interesting if we are talking about Steinberg plug-ins. We also make a workstation library for HALion (and also works with Reason and SampleTank) called "Sonic Station" and many people think its sounds are much better than those of Hypersonic. But, that's subjective. Some people could think the opposite. I wouldn't want to know them though. Just kidding! (Obviously we're biased).

Hope that helps.

[miziq]

Thanks,

so you do use reason for production also. Do you know anyone in studio using reasona and refills on par with other workstation and samplers.

How good do you found nnxt.

Thanks

[Squids]

Yes. A lot of people use Reason. It's one of those pieces that many pros have in addition to their ProTools with ST2, AT, TR set ups or Neundo, Cubase, Logic, DP set ups (etc.). Sometimes I see that some of the other guys besides just keyboard players in a touring band have Reason such as the bass player or the tour manager (I found this to be the case when we were doing some sounds recently for Beyonce's tour).

Keith Emerson is using tons of SR sounds on a soundtrack he is working on and he is using both SampleTank 2 and Reason with all of the refills we've done as well. Someone we know also set up Dr. Dre's studio with all of our Sonic Refill volumes too. Herbie Hancock called us up once to tell us he was using Sonic Refill box set and loved it. He then picked up all of the other volumes in one shot. He also uses SampleTank 2 and has a number of our sounds for that as well (reference him and other artist quotes on SampleTank on the artists page here: www.sampletank.com ).

What do I think of the NNXT? Personally, I love it. I love its flexibility in layering and velocity crossfading/switching. I also like the ALT feature where it can randomly switch the playback of layered samples. Some of the mapping features like auto detect from pitch are pretty rare to find in a sampler. But, this is for creating sounds (which we do a lot of!).

For playback, what I like about the NNXT is that it is highly efficient on the processor. It is one of the lightest loads but it is dry (without effects). I prefer to have the ability to make my sounds optionally WITH effects like you can in ST2, Kontakt and now HALion 3 etc. Oh, it also doesn't do program change (and ST didn't either until ST2 came along...so now it does finally! Nice)

To be critical of NNXT, there are some modulation routings I would like to have but don't. That's not the end of the world though. The trade off is that it is easy to use (less is more philosophy). On the complete opposite side of the spectrum there are tools like Kontakt which are nice because they have all kinds of deep features if you are in the "mood" to work that way. I like having it around as a sound tool box in case I want to use those features. But, the irony is that most people want to just load up a sound and play. Reason and ST2 are both some of the best for doing that. I believe that is why they are so popular. Making sounds for both of these tools has been very successful for Sonic Reality. We've been able to reach a wide range of musicians, producers, songwriters etc.

In terms of how I use NNXT, I like to use Reason sometimes as a writing tool because it is all self contained. But, I can just as easily use my Cubase SX3 and ST2 as well. I like having both set ups because I'll just call up one of the two and get going. Obviously being the owner of a sound company I have all of the sounds to load up to make music in any style. I am finally taking just a little bit of time to do that these days. It is very rewarding. I can totally see the benefits of someone buying practically all of our libraries (which some people do) because that is what they are- a LIBRARY (just like one could have of books). You pull out whatever you need when you need it. Having a broad sample collection is one of the most powerful tools you can have in production. Sometimes software samplers are really just the vehicle for that content to be playable to you (one way to look at it... although surely a sound developer's perspective! lol).

[miziq]

Thank you so much . I know you could get biased, but its your bred , so no problems here.

Well jes im trying to convince myself that software is capable of hardware worstation kind of feeling. Well i just one to sit down and have fun while compsoing music. You know you can hav soooooo many sounds but then you just browse and tweak and never really do something. In its special way i hate software . Well im in computers from eraly 80s and went trough all sound apps, from zx81, c64, amiga, pc and now mac .

But to tell you openly, its hard to force yourself focused with computers. When i look back i was most productive and satisfied while owning hardware things. It was simple, no 10000 wasy of stuck into something. Well in a way im trying to approach this by reason/refills. I should probably really clear all other programs from my HD and go clear.

Reason is really one hell of program, simple and rocksolid. But do you also find it harder to get good sound ? You really have to put some time into it, and mixers are clipping so easy. But its a process

Well how do you find yourself into softword making yourslef hardware feeling. You are from all outhere a really hardware guy

Thanks so much for taking the time. Let me tell ya this kind of attitude sells things and you are gaining recpect and steady customers. But you allready know this right

yours

Miziq

[Squids]

I look at all of these things as tools for creativity. Hardware or software, it really doesn't matter. Sure, there is option anxiety but it is up to you as the musician to figure out what you want to use and what not to use and when. I have different writing set ups that I use depending on the mood I am in. But, to me even just a ragged guitar is a writing set up or a piano whether it is a grand, an upright or a digital keyboard controller connected to a computer. It could be my own set up or one I am playing in a studio or wherever I may be.

Personally, I like laptop computers the most because it allows me to bring things like Reason or SampleTank 2 into different context of other musical instruments. I can work from home or in my studio. I can bring it anywhere with a USB powered keyboard (I am messing around with the new M-Audio Keystation 88 at home now).

So, each person is different. I can see how using Reason to keep everything self contained could be a good creative choice. It can be a "system" for working. SampleTank 2 is also a sub system where you have that benefit of keeping tons of sounds within one easy to use "module" and then you can choose a sequencer (particularly one that can also record audio, which is the main area that Reason misses except via ReWire).

Regardless of whether one uses Reason or they use SampleTank 2 in a sequencer/DAW or if they use a variety of other sample players, having the variety of content we make can be very inspiring and promotes creativity. In fact, the speed at which you can work (not to mention total recall of all of your settings and automation) is incredible with computers. So, it is a great thing to embrace as a musician and composer. You just have to be the one in control of it that's all.

[miziq]

So i dont have to worry about sound quality from reason vs cubase with SR banks. If i get it right there i s no difference.

You are right its all down to train yourself. Mybe just one program and few soundbanks and voila. Kind of like hardware workstation.

Thnx

btw are those squids mellotrons coming in refill form ?

[Squids]

So i dont have to worry about sound quality from reason vs cubase with SR banks. If i get it right there i s no difference.

You are right its all down to train yourself. Mybe just one program and few soundbanks and voila. Kind of like hardware workstation.

Thnx

btw are those squids mellotrons coming in refill form ?

The main difference I would say is just the sounds having built-in effects applied or not. In some sample devices like ST2 we've been able to do that (add reverbs, chorus, delay, distortion etc as part of the sound). In Reason it is not currently possible to do that as a sound developer. So, the sounds are dry. But, you can easily do that yourself by pulling down the effects in the rack. In this case, I think you'll find that we make the best of it and the quality is still there if SR bothered to support it.

I recommend checking out the list of refills on www.esoundz.com I think you may like Volume 20 in particular. It's called Mello-T. (But, it is less than 1/4 the material of the Squids collection so I don't believe this will be in Reason format fully, Mello-T is about as close as that will get... except for a "Tron Capsule" also coming out in Reason).

I also highly recommend looking into our "Sonik Capsule" range in general because they all come with SampleTank 2 LE (thrown into the package at no extra cost) and yet they are the only product out there that works natively in BOTH Reason and SampleTank 2 (best of both worlds in terms of options even if it is just if you decide to change your set up later on because it also supports most of the other popular samplers as well). You can check that out on www.esoundz.com as well.

Good luck!

[midinut]

Slightly off topic, but I saw it here first ...

So Squids, you're checking out the M-Audio Keystation Pro 88? Inquiring minds would like to know how that's working out for you. I'm about this close to grabbing one myself. The reviews look great but I'd be willing to bet that there are a bunch of us here that are looking seriously at it to replace our current controllers. Plus we all respect your opinions (in case you haven't noticed ) - Thanks in advance! - BTW I'm also on the edge of upgrading to ST2 and SS2 as well. I just built a new box and have reloaded SS1 and only come up for air about once a week! Thanks for a wonderful product and the best support in the industry! Okay, enough butt-kissing, back to writing songs!

[Squids]

Slightly off topic, but I saw it here first ...

So Squids, you're checking out the M-Audio Keystation Pro 88? Inquiring minds would like to know how that's working out for you. I'm about this close to grabbing one myself. The reviews look great but I'd be willing to bet that there are a bunch of us here that are looking seriously at it to replace our current controllers. Plus we all respect your opinions (in case you haven't noticed ) - Thanks in advance! - BTW I'm also on the edge of upgrading to ST2 and SS2 as well. I just built a new box and have reloaded SS1 and only come up for air about once a week! Thanks for a wonderful product and the best support in the industry! Okay, enough butt-kissing, back to writing songs!

Well, we do over 20 products with M-Audio for Reason. So, naturally they're going to send me their controller! But, the fact that I really started using it is a good sign. At first I wasn't sure I liked the action. Actually, I heard that there were some tweaks to the action in the ones that are shipping now! So, perhaps the newer tweaked keybed is going to be different. But, in general I pefer more weight such as the Yamaha, Roland or Korg keyboards. I can see a lot of people liking LESS weight on the keys though because it is easier to play. As I've played it for a while now the action doesn't bother me. Where this thing really shines IMO is the fact that this beast is USB powered!!! Awesome. It was sooooo easy to install as well. 2 seconds and I was controlling ST2 in Chainer and Reason.

So, to have this to accompany my laptop is GREAT! It also has a ton of sliders and knobs and a perty blue screen. The price is also incredible. So, even though I got mine for free (well, on loan anyway) I think our company is going to buy 2 or 3 for programmers to use in different situations. M-Audio is great at those easy buy priced items. They started more as a gadget company who was the one company who had that digital coaxial to optical converter or a midi merge box or.... I bought ALL of that stuff because I am a gadget man! So, in some ways the controllers are also BIG gadgets because they are a quick solution, a piece of the puzzle.

So, do I recommend it? I think that you should play it first to make sure you like the way it works and the feel of it. But, for the money I don't think you can go wrong. So far I am getting a LOT of use out of it in my home and I can easily just move it around wherever my laptop goes and not even have to deal with a powerstrip! Talk about portable. If it was only lighter in carrying weight it would be the ultimate portable 88 key keyboard! Ironically, the Fatar one is (we have one of those around too) but it doesn't have USB (they are sooo behind it is shameful) and the action on it is REALLY semi-weighted and unpiano-like (almost B3 like or like that old Roland controller with the square semi weighted keys... mkb-300? wow, I'm old! ).

[midinut]

Thanks for the input. I tried one at Guitar Center last week and liked the feel of it. I started on organ many many years ago and the "true piano touch" issue isn't that important to me. I do like having full 88 note range though. I got a Yamaha DGX-500 over a year ago and it's been a great controller for key input. But the Keystation has a mod wheel and boogobbles of controllers and I think SS1 and ST would be even easier to control (as well as my other "virtual" instruments). I use the Yamaha Grand (C7S 60) from SS1 and it blows all other pianos I've used away! Thanks again for your input!

[Zoing]

You are right its all down to train yourself. Mybe just one program and few soundbanks and voila. Kind of like hardware workstation.

I'm a bit like that, I use Logic, and mainly ST2, and Reason. For my last song I used only ST2 (except for guitar). For another quiet ballady song I did about my daughter I only used sounds from Reason, as an excercise in using the least likely thing for the job (given reason's electronic/dance music background).

I think its quite healthy to limit yourself to only a few things sometimes. I also find it helpful to do a bit of a song using mainly ST2 in Logic, then start again using Reason. I find each program gives me something quite different, then I can combine the most interesting bits.