Using a laptop for sequencing but external computer as a VST host.

[Tweaksta303]

Hi there;
I've got my main PC running Ableton, Cakewalk and Zenbeats. I have a few basic VST's running on this machine enabling me to do some cool stuff. I have a whole bunch of VST's which I desire both free and paid but I don't really want to clog the main DAW PC up with hundreds of VST's. I'd actually like to build a dedicated VST host computer to connect to my main DAW. Now if my dedicated VST host computer were to connect to my audio interface using Thunderbolt then what are my options to connect the DAW PC to the same interface with only a single Thunderbolt port?

Do I need a 2nd Thunderbolt audio interface?
How can I play the VSTs over MIDI from my main DAW to the VST host. Would USB work for multiple channels of MIDI with it's buffered nature?

This seems like the only way to connect the 2 PC's allowing the DAW to play the instruments on the VST host computer.

[BONES]

This is such a stupid idea I can't even begin to formulate a response. What is the problem with having several hundred VST plugins installed? How does that compare to the enormous hassle of trying to make two computers work in sync?

[Scotty]

There are vst over Ethernet solutions some free, some paid which may work for you. This one is free. Try it out and see if you can manage the work flow. Lots of audio nerds use satellite computers. I did for a few years but found it too cumbersome and bought more powerful PCs as they became available. https://sonobus.net/.

[kev2525]

Audiogridder does exactly what you require. Also, bluecat audio has a new plugin that can 'pipe' audio and midi between computers. Might be worth looking at.

Bones, FYI there is clearly a use case for such set ups hence the reason solution's are already on the market. I have tested Audiogridder myself and while it wasn't flawless, it did allow me to offload some processing power from my laptop to my main PC over ethernet.

[Tweaksta303]

Audiogridder does exactly what you require. Also, bluecat audio has a new plugin that can 'pipe' audio and midi between computers. Might be worth looking at.

Bones, FYI there is clearly a use case for such set ups hence the reason solution's are already on the market. I have tested Audiogridder myself and while it wasn't flawless, it did allow me to offload some processing power from my laptop to my main PC over ethernet.

Thanks Kev and Scotty. These are the exact solutions I've been looking for.

[apoclypse]

Hi there;
I've got my main PC running Ableton, Cakewalk and Zenbeats. I have a few basic VST's running on this machine enabling me to do some cool stuff. I have a whole bunch of VST's which I desire both free and paid but I don't really want to clog the main DAW PC up with hundreds of VST's. I'd actually like to build a dedicated VST host computer to connect to my main DAW. Now if my dedicated VST host computer were to connect to my audio interface using Thunderbolt then what are my options to connect the DAW PC to the same interface with only a single Thunderbolt port?

Do I need a 2nd Thunderbolt audio interface?
How can I play the VSTs over MIDI from my main DAW to the VST host. Would USB work for multiple channels of MIDI with it's buffered nature?

This seems like the only way to connect the 2 PC's allowing the DAW to play the instruments on the VST host computer.

You could use something like the Vienna Ensemble Pro. It's made for the scenario you posted here. No audio interface or midi, just a network cable and the server client running on the machine with the VSTs. Unless I'm misreading what your are trying to do.

I think somebody mentioned AudioGridder that is a free open source alternative to VSL.

[BONES]

Bones, FYI there is clearly a use case for such set ups

So many that you cannot name even one. Honestly, what's the point of offloading to another computer because your laptop can't handle the load? Once you do it, you can never run those projects away from that set-up again so surely the sensible thing would be to buy a laptop that can handle everything you need it to do?

In any event, I was responding specifically to the scenario of "I don't really want to clog the main DAW PC up with hundreds of VST's", as though disc space was the primary concern.

[Shabdahbriah]

There are vst over Ethernet solutions some free, some paid which may work for you. This one is free. Try it out and see if you can manage the work flow. Lots of audio nerds use satellite computers. I did for a few years but found it too cumbersome and bought more powerful PCs as they became available. https://sonobus.net/.

Same here (though I build my own). I used Musiclab MIDIoverLAN for ages, (it's no longer supported). Aside from those already mentioned, here are some options:

https://nerds.de/en/ipmidi.html

https://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/rtpmidi.html

[Super Piano Hater 64]

Bones, FYI there is clearly a use case for such set ups

So many that you cannot name even one. Honestly, what's the point of offloading to another computer because your laptop can't handle the load?

It's supposedly very common in orchestral work that makes heavy use of sample libraries. For instance, this video (by some Hollywood musician I've never heard of) describes a setup with two computers linked by Vienna Ensemble Pro:



(Jump to 2:58 if the timestamp in my link doesn't work.)

I'm not sure this type of setup is strictly necessary in today's world of 24 core CPUs and 16x PCIe SSDs, but then again, defending the preferred workflow of high-strung Hollywood composers is outside the scope of my post.

[jancivil]

everybody that does large orchestra up in real time uses it. Before it, guess what. People used many computers in a *server farm* running Gigastudio, like a whole computer for a section of the orchestra, or say the piano, and all the audio had to be piped via that computer's sound card back to the one connected to the sequencing host. Now the sky's the limit for a decent MBP.

VEP been the thing for a dozen years.

All of plugins in a diff. process than the DAW, with excellent latency compensation and an intelligent approach to multithreading...
It has a full-fledged mixer and its automation map conveys the actual internal names to a Cubase in one list.

[jancivil]

Bones, FYI there is clearly a use case for such set ups

So many that you cannot name even one. Honestly, what's the point of offloading to another computer because your laptop can't handle the load? Once you do it, you can never run those projects away from that set-up again so surely the sensible thing would be to buy a laptop that can handle everything you need it to do?

this makes sense to you?
people are what, going to one day not have their own setup to work with so they should be.. WHAT?
Show us a massive orchestration you have up on your laptop. You have no clue what this is about.

[BONES]

I don't need to know what this is about because it's lunacy. I've hung around orchestras enough to know that they don't give each player a unique score to play, that most of the time any differences within a section are simple transpositions of the same notes, things any decent orchestral library will provide or which can be achieved by playing chords. In a symphonic score, you might have 5 parts for the String Section - 1st Violin, 2nd Violin, Viola, Cello and Double-Bass, 5 for the Woodwind section - Flute, Oboe, Cor Anglais, Clarinet and Bassoon, maybe 6 for Brass - Trumpet, Horn, Euphonium, Trombone and Tuba, plus percussion and maybe piano and/or a harp for scoring work. Often the brass section will play a number of extra parts but if the unique number of parts gets much above 20, it gets very hard to pick anything out. The reason an orchestra might have 12 First Violins is to get the mix right, because violins aren't as loud as trumpets, not so that each player can play something different. Think of it as the 17th Century version of Unison.

You need to think outside the box to do this in the most efficient manner, not look for ways to make it as hard for yourself as you possibly can.

It's supposedly very common in orchestral work that makes heavy use of sample libraries. For instance, this video (by some Hollywood musician I've never heard of) describes a setup with two computers linked by Vienna Ensemble Pro:

(Jump to 2:58 if the timestamp in my link doesn't work.)

OK, so what she's doing there is leaving the main computer's RAM relatively clean so she can use it for the video, which will need loads of RAM to cache at full res in any video/film editing system. It's stupid for amateurs, people who aren't actually working with a film edit that's still a WiP. Both her systems are likely very grunty workstations, but it makes way more sense for us to run a proxy res version of the edited film/video that won't put any strain on (y)our system, thereby allowing you/us to do everything on one machine. You do shit like that as a last resort, when you have no other choice, not as a first option.

everybody that does large orchestra up in real time uses it.

I don't, therefore not "everybody" does. And the big thing is that real composers, who score real films, definitely don't. They record the entire orchestra in one go, on a single sound stage. Yes, they'll use multiple mics, like most good sample libraries, but they don't record their scores one instrument at a time, which makes it stupid to do it that way in software.

[Ah_Dziz]

Vienna ensemble pro is designed for this sort of workflow. It works extremely well for sample libraries ( which is what I use it for when I work). Since the hundreds of patches I keep in VEP leave my DAW feeling super snappy, I don't usually have any issue dropping any other VST plugins I to the DAW session.

[Ah_Dziz]

You'll want to use a network to distribute stuff outside of the DAW anyway. There are other options out yhere, but VEP is a solid setup.

[Tj Shredder]

everybody that does large orchestra up in real time uses it.

I don't, therefore not "everybody" does. And the big thing is that real composers, who score real films, definitely don't. They record the entire orchestra in one go, on a single sound stage.

Now you get embarrassing and probably won’t recognize it…
Nothing more to say, but keep on, its entertaining…