Successor to the 8 year old FA-series.
https://www.roland.com/us/promos/fantom-0_series/
I’m wondering how many SuperNatural Acoustic sounds are included apart from the pianos.
At least the SuperNatural Strings seem to be from what I could fathom from YouTube, but what else? Brass? Woodwinds?
Roland new Fantom-0 series
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- KVRist
- 184 posts since 17 Dec, 2020
This looks like a good keyboard. I used to own an FA-08 - similar type of thing (i.e. workstation synth with built in USB audio interface) but there were some issues with it which I hope the Fantom-0 series sorts out.
1. The USB driver was pretty unstable & would frequently lock up my PC (other users reported this too). I don’t think it was ever updated!
2. The USB audio interface was also limited when using with a DAW to 1 stereo track out so although 16 MIDI channels could be triggered, in order to use more than 1 audio/instrument track with the FA (so DAW plugin effects could be used), all MIDI tracks had to be bounced to audio each time. I appreciate this is how other synth hardware behaves but not ideal for a workstation! The Fantom-0 seems to have sorted this though (assuming the 4X32 interface means what I think it means!).
3. The main niggle for me was an odd feature where the FA audio interface seemed to have a permanent direct monitoring feature. In other words, if local trigger was switched off (i.e. keybed disconnected from synth engine), I could create an instrument track (i.e. combined MIDI + audio) inside Cubase & play/record as needed. The synth sound would be triggered (MIDI from FA, trigger instrument track which would then trigger the sound in FA), but it would be doubled up when passed to monitors. So if I had an effect (e.g. reverb) on the track, what would be sent to my monitors would be the ‘wet’ version from Cubase plus the ‘dry’ version direct from the FA.
I had extensive conversations with Roland Support about this & they concluded that it was a limitation of the interface. They said that whenever the internal sound generator of the FA is triggered (either by playing the keys, or via MIDI) it will always produce sound & go to the main outputs and headphones, it’s just not possible to route it elsewhere or to interrupt the signal from reaching these destinations. So whenever you have MIDI reaching the FA to trigger its sound, you’ll always hear it direct from the keyboard.
The obvious workaround was to record straight to audio, or do everything in just MIDI & apply DAW effects at the end (perhaps using internal effects as you go along), but both of those options have obvious limitations.
So assuming the above is a sorted, it looks good. The main Fantom is perhaps overkill for many (myself included as a hobbyist!) but given the array of knobs & faders it looks to be a good balance between DAW control (although only deep with Logic & Ableton, hopefully Cubase to follow!) & quick jamming/song creation on a piece of hardware with the PC switched off, plus of course giving access to the Fantom ZEN synth engine & Roland Cloud instruments/expansions without stressing your CPU.
It’s a shame the keybed looks pretty basic (no aftertouch, although that's not a deal-clincher for me) but probably of a higher quality than the majority of MIDI controllers out there!
Gonna have to book myself a demo I think…!
1. The USB driver was pretty unstable & would frequently lock up my PC (other users reported this too). I don’t think it was ever updated!
2. The USB audio interface was also limited when using with a DAW to 1 stereo track out so although 16 MIDI channels could be triggered, in order to use more than 1 audio/instrument track with the FA (so DAW plugin effects could be used), all MIDI tracks had to be bounced to audio each time. I appreciate this is how other synth hardware behaves but not ideal for a workstation! The Fantom-0 seems to have sorted this though (assuming the 4X32 interface means what I think it means!).
3. The main niggle for me was an odd feature where the FA audio interface seemed to have a permanent direct monitoring feature. In other words, if local trigger was switched off (i.e. keybed disconnected from synth engine), I could create an instrument track (i.e. combined MIDI + audio) inside Cubase & play/record as needed. The synth sound would be triggered (MIDI from FA, trigger instrument track which would then trigger the sound in FA), but it would be doubled up when passed to monitors. So if I had an effect (e.g. reverb) on the track, what would be sent to my monitors would be the ‘wet’ version from Cubase plus the ‘dry’ version direct from the FA.
I had extensive conversations with Roland Support about this & they concluded that it was a limitation of the interface. They said that whenever the internal sound generator of the FA is triggered (either by playing the keys, or via MIDI) it will always produce sound & go to the main outputs and headphones, it’s just not possible to route it elsewhere or to interrupt the signal from reaching these destinations. So whenever you have MIDI reaching the FA to trigger its sound, you’ll always hear it direct from the keyboard.
The obvious workaround was to record straight to audio, or do everything in just MIDI & apply DAW effects at the end (perhaps using internal effects as you go along), but both of those options have obvious limitations.
So assuming the above is a sorted, it looks good. The main Fantom is perhaps overkill for many (myself included as a hobbyist!) but given the array of knobs & faders it looks to be a good balance between DAW control (although only deep with Logic & Ableton, hopefully Cubase to follow!) & quick jamming/song creation on a piece of hardware with the PC switched off, plus of course giving access to the Fantom ZEN synth engine & Roland Cloud instruments/expansions without stressing your CPU.
It’s a shame the keybed looks pretty basic (no aftertouch, although that's not a deal-clincher for me) but probably of a higher quality than the majority of MIDI controllers out there!
Gonna have to book myself a demo I think…!
Last edited by FJ5 on Tue Mar 22, 2022 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 2772 posts since 28 Mar, 2007
The manuals are up including the sounds. There are a huge amount of basic sounds with some supernatural sounds towards the end staring at page 32...........Fleer wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:01 am Successor to the 8 year old FA-series.
https://www.roland.com/us/promos/fantom-0_series/
I’m wondering how many SuperNatural Acoustic sounds are included apart from the pianos.
At least the SuperNatural Strings seem to be from what I could fathom from YouTube, but what else? Brass? Woodwinds?
https://www.roland.com/us/support/by_pr ... s_manuals/
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- KVRist
- 272 posts since 1 Mar, 2019
I still have no idea why people would use such keyboards as workstations when you got daws like cubase, pro tools etc that makes the process 10x more coinvent...
In terms of acoustic sounds, I see there are tons of old xv-5080 pcm sounds and very few supernatural..I think I'll pass.
In terms of acoustic sounds, I see there are tons of old xv-5080 pcm sounds and very few supernatural..I think I'll pass.
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- KVRist
- 184 posts since 17 Dec, 2020
I agree, to an extent.Bippo wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:45 pm I still have no idea why people would use such keyboards as workstations when you got daws like cubase, pro tools etc that makes the process 10x more coinvent...
In terms of acoustic sounds, I see there are tons of old xv-5080 pcm sounds and very few supernatural..I think I'll pass.
The advantage is that the processing power is done in the keyboard, not the PC. So somebody with a low spec (or old!) PC will be able to enjoy some good sounds without thrapping the CPU.
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- KVRist
- 88 posts since 16 May, 2021
This seems to be exactly what I need! I've begun playing live performances (so far only in the studio) with a Nord Lead 4 and Elektron Model: Samples. Wanted to expand and got an Octatrack but quickly realized what I really wanted was a workstation.
The Roland Fantom seemed great but expensive, other workstation either lacked features (especially sequencer-wise) or didn't feel right. I kept coming back to the Fantom. The Fantom 0 has what I need and skips what I don't need, at least that's what it seems on the specs sheet. Can't wait to try it out!
The Roland Fantom seemed great but expensive, other workstation either lacked features (especially sequencer-wise) or didn't feel right. I kept coming back to the Fantom. The Fantom 0 has what I need and skips what I don't need, at least that's what it seems on the specs sheet. Can't wait to try it out!
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- KVRAF
- 5267 posts since 13 Jul, 2004 from Earth
+ No Phone home every 30days to reactivate your Lifetime license (Roland Cloud), in These Times Where we one day might wake up to no Internet.FJ5 wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 10:45 pmI agree, to an extent.Bippo wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:45 pm I still have no idea why people would use such keyboards as workstations when you got daws like cubase, pro tools etc that makes the process 10x more coinvent...
In terms of acoustic sounds, I see there are tons of old xv-5080 pcm sounds and very few supernatural..I think I'll pass.
The advantage is that the processing power is done in the keyboard, not the PC. So somebody with a low spec (or old!) PC will be able to enjoy some good sounds without thrapping the CPU.
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- KVRist
- 445 posts since 17 Sep, 2014
Why do some people go monkey-sh*t when they find out that a budget keyboard doesn't have aftertouch?? All it is...is a hands-free effect implementation...besides, the Fantom-0 series has 2 effect pedal inputs and in addition to the pitch & mod wheels, there's also a pitch/mod lever.
The Fantom 06 is $900 cheaper than the flagship Fantom 6 and yet, retains like 90% of the flagship sounds & functionality & people STILL complain.
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- KVRist
- 445 posts since 17 Sep, 2014
No idea at all...heh? Have you even bothered to study the functionality of a Fantom's recording process? From what I've seen,it's nearly identical in workflow to that of a PC DAW(with the one exception being...working on a 5.5" display, rather than a 24" display.)Bippo wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:45 pm I still have no idea why people would use such keyboards as workstations when you got daws like cubase, pro tools etc that makes the process 10x more coinvent...
In terms of acoustic sounds, I see there are tons of old xv-5080 pcm sounds and very few supernatural..I think I'll pass.
As previously mentioned in this thread, creating tracks on a hardware board is very instrumental in sparing crucial HD space & CPU usage on a PC(especially on a Fantom, as it is a recording studio within a keyboard.)
Moreover...just the sheer joy of working with hardware and having all of your onscreen functions hard-wired with onboard physical controls( & no fidgeting with a pesky PC mouse), is a pleasure you cannot measure.
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- KVRist
- 345 posts since 4 Jun, 2020 from USA
The grand piano has no aftertouch. The pipe organ has no aftertouch. Well, I personally need no aftertouch. Anyway, if the Fantom 08 has a decent weighted keybed, I'll buy one.
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- KVRist
- 272 posts since 1 Mar, 2019
Yes, I have no idea how working with a 5.5" display is more convient than working with a 24" display...AlesisVi61 wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:24 pmNo idea at all...heh? Have you even bothered to study the functionality of a Fantom's recording process? From what I've seen,it's nearly identical in workflow to that of a PC DAW(with the one exception being...working on a 5.5" display, rather than a 24" display.)Bippo wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:45 pm I still have no idea why people would use such keyboards as workstations when you got daws like cubase, pro tools etc that makes the process 10x more coinvent...
In terms of acoustic sounds, I see there are tons of old xv-5080 pcm sounds and very few supernatural..I think I'll pass.
As previously mentioned in this thread, creating tracks on a hardware board is very instrumental in sparing crucial HD space & CPU usage on a PC(especially on a Fantom, as it is a recording studio within a keyboard.)
Moreover...just the sheer joy of working with hardware and having all of your onscreen functions hard-wired with onboard physical controls( & no fidgeting with a pesky PC mouse), is a pleasure you cannot measure.
In term of being a workstation, everything you can do with the fantom, you can do way faster with pro tools/cubase and there are tons of functionalities that are available in those daws that you won't find in any hardware workstation.
As a sound module, there's nothing groundbreaking in it either...not enough SuperNatural Acoustic and too many old xv5080 sounds repacked.
It can be a great live keyboard for sure, and its price is more affordable than the Fantom (without "o")...but honestly the roland-fa can do the same job for less money.
It feels like an "obligatory" release that need to happens once in 7-10 years, but there's not much of innovation.
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- KVRist
- 445 posts since 17 Sep, 2014
Okay...I see now....you are a millennial that was born into software workstations and you enjoy having to constantly upgrade your PC as you add more to it, or buy a second PC if need be, deal with software registration problems, installation problems, cooling fan problems, potential problems with midi controller issues, having to be connected to the internet just to run your DAW and if you want high-quality acoustic sounds...you have to spend a fortune on NI's Kontakt and deal with their horrible customer service....yeah...sounds wonderfully convenient.Bippo wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 10:20 amYes, I have no idea how working with a 5.5" display is more convient than working with a 24" display...AlesisVi61 wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:24 pmNo idea at all...heh? Have you even bothered to study the functionality of a Fantom's recording process? From what I've seen,it's nearly identical in workflow to that of a PC DAW(with the one exception being...working on a 5.5" display, rather than a 24" display.)Bippo wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:45 pm I still have no idea why people would use such keyboards as workstations when you got daws like cubase, pro tools etc that makes the process 10x more coinvent...
In terms of acoustic sounds, I see there are tons of old xv-5080 pcm sounds and very few supernatural..I think I'll pass.
As previously mentioned in this thread, creating tracks on a hardware board is very instrumental in sparing crucial HD space & CPU usage on a PC(especially on a Fantom, as it is a recording studio within a keyboard.)
Moreover...just the sheer joy of working with hardware and having all of your onscreen functions hard-wired with onboard physical controls( & no fidgeting with a pesky PC mouse), is a pleasure you cannot measure.
In term of being a workstation, everything you can do with the fantom, you can do way faster with pro tools/cubase and there are tons of functionalities that are available in those daws that you won't find in any hardware workstation.
As a sound module, there's nothing groundbreaking in it either...not enough SuperNatural Acoustic and too many old xv5080 sounds repacked.
It can be a great live keyboard for sure, and its price is more affordable than the Fantom (without "o")...but honestly the roland-fa can do the same job for less money.
It feels like an "obligatory" release that need to happens once in 7-10 years, but there's not much of innovation.
I'll reiterate again(since you can't seem to grasp the benefits of hardware)...those of us who started out with hardware(before PC DAW's existed)....enjoy having all of our sounds & functionality mapped out with the physical controls, enjoy the added inspiration that hardware provides, enjoy the HD space & CPU usage we save by using hardware and as for the Fantom-0's 5.5" dispaly...well...we also started on monochrome displays that were the size of a small calculator....so Roland's HD color touchscreen is a very welcome upgrade(especially for the price.)
Having a hardware workstation that boots up nearly instantly, already has a sound program loaded, works without internet and has every conceivable physical knob,fader,lever, button & drum pad(with no configuration necessary, unless you want to customize)....is VERY convenient in it's own way(not more convenient than a PC)...but definitely has it's own handy attributes.