KVR Audio

Fraggle · Post by **Fraggle** » Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:51 am

I found studio one 3 and 4 closed/crashed far too regularly.
I troubleshooted the problems for months -
I concluded it wasn’t VSTs or other plugins but had to be something in the DAW.
I checked all the areas of my Mac and it wasn’t any crap I had unintentionally installed or downloaded - I keep my music Mac very empty of junk , just using it for music and Word documentation.

Ableton (since version 4) has crashed/closed when opening projects that use Max 4 Live devices. It does it about half of the time. I have gotten into the habit of saving my project before I open a M4L device, so that when the DAW closes I don’t lose my progress.

In the early days I sent the bug reports - must have sent hundreds - but nowadays I don’t bother - I have used Ableton from version 4 to 11 and this problem has never been fixed.

I read that bigwig is prone to crashing, but only briefly tried the demo, so couldn’t establish its stability.

I know Live inside out , so am loathed to move. I could use it without Max devices but that would really limit my creativity.

Is there a Mac M1 DAW that is absolutely rock solid stable?

THE INTRANCER · Post by **THE INTRANCER** » Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:26 am

Fraggle · Post by **Fraggle** » Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:32 am

THE INTRANCER wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:26 am No.

That's what I feared -
I figure some instability 'has to be tolerated'

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:18 am

Fraggle wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:51 am Is there a Mac M1 DAW that is absolutely rock solid stable?

Bitwig is for me... haven't had a full crash in a few years, including since I switched to the new M1-Pro.

arkmabat · Post by **arkmabat** » Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:29 am

FL Studio has good bridging and sandboxing. Avoid plugins that consistently glitch.

jens · Post by **jens** » Mon Apr 25, 2022 6:49 am

Reason 11 barely ever crashes here...

fese · Post by **fese** » Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:08 am

AdvancedFollower · Post by **AdvancedFollower** » Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:11 am

I rarely experience crashes in Studio One, FL or Cubase 12 on Windows.
When it does happen, it's usually due to some rogue plugin. If it can't be fixed I just remove that plugin and move on. A stable DAW is more important than some fancy new compressor I'll barely use.

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:49 am

The only times I ever had crashes with Cubase in the last 2 years was directly attributable to plugins. Take those plugins out and crashes stopped. I suspect most DAWs that crash are due to external s/w, but could be wrong. I guess there's an argument that DAWs should be able to deal with varied plugins - but that's probably impossible...too many variants and too many different ways for coders to create clashes with DAWs.

Spitfire31 · Post by **Spitfire31** » Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:20 am

Since you're on a Mac M1, I'd assume that Logic, being an Apple crown jewel, would come as close as you can – as far as you primarily use the Logic plug-ins. As soon as you add external plugs, well…

Tj Shredder · Post by **Tj Shredder** » Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:36 am

If a crashing plugin crashes the host, you will get more crashes the more plugins you use. Bitwig doesn‘t crash if a plugin crashes, as its in its own process. Simply reload the plugin and keep on working. Even the audio engine is in its own process. If that crashes, you still have your project running in a not crashing process… In 7 years of Bitwig use, I never had a Bitwig core crash. Some betas crashed the audio engine rarely, but never the project…
As far as I know Logic does not belong to the DAWs which run plugins in their own process…

Iconoklast · Post by **Iconoklast** » Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:13 am

I see most are talking PLUGIN crashing, not other processes...With the whole VST arena you are ALWAYS going to have a problem here-there...

Much better performance when things were (still are for me) DX-DXi plugs as they are a much superior architecture to VST whereby any moron can write a plug & lots of ambiguity in this manner...

I can't recall EVER having a directX plug crashing a DAW-Sequencer or a DX plug failing a scan...

You have to really know what you are doing to write a DX plug so the cream rises to the top...

As far as Ableton I have tried versions 1 thru 9 and it's always had crap scanning that takes forever to get through and the MIDI mostly terrible as it did not start out as a MIDI DAW...It was sort of 'crammed in' half-assed in version 3 then completed to 3/4 ass in version 4...

Ableton great audio function & would've been a great plugin...

Never had a crash in Cakewalk Project5 1.5 or 2.5.1 (DX & VST Wrapper)
Also Bremmer's MultiTrack Studio (DX & VST)
Also Synapse Audio Orion 6 & 7 (DX & VST)
Also DreamStation II (DX & VST)
and FINALLY Reason 2.5 & 3.04 - pretty obvious, uses own devices very efficient

This is discounting rewire use where there are issues here-there...

Fraggle · Post by **Fraggle** » Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:58 am

Thanks . The replies kinda clarify stuff for me -
If I use Ableton without M4L stuff I lose a great deal of flexibility.

I know (as I described in OP) that it’s only those devices that make Ableton unstable and it’s been that way since Version 4 —-

I mainly make generative/ atmospheric pieces and experimental sound design - M4L delivers that, but the price is the stability -

It sounds like for my style of music bitwig will be better than logic

Damn I wish I had $400 to spare — gonna have to do some saving up for the next few months.

FapFilter · Post by **FapFilter** » Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:05 pm

Reaper only crashed on me on Windows using one specific plugin.
After switching to Mac (and not using said plugin, as it is too old and discontinued anyway) i've yet to see Reaper crash on me.
It can also put troublesome plugins into a safe mode which should prevent these from crashing the DAW itself, but i've never tried that

jinotsuh · Post by **jinotsuh** » Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:10 pm

There we go

Is there a DAW that doesn't crash ?