CLAP: The New Audio Plug-in Standard (by U-he, Bitwig and others)

[DJMaytag]

But yeah, I'm not expecting Steiny to adopt CLAP any time soon.

IMHO, their VST3 push and not adopting CLAP could be a major misstep, and the final nail in their coffin.

FWIW, I ditched Cubase Pro in favor of Reason, simply for one VST plug-in suite that didn't work properly due to some stupid limitations in Cubase. Making their DAW rigidly adhere to their own VST standard (regarding plugin routing) rendered them nearly useless, while they work magnificently in Ableton and Reason.

[teilo]

But yeah, I'm not expecting Steiny to adopt CLAP any time soon.

IMHO, their VST3 push and not adopting CLAP could be a major misstep, and the final nail in their coffin.

FWIW, I ditched Cubase Pro in favor of Reason, simply for one VST plug-in suite that didn't work properly due to some stupid limitations in Cubase. Making their DAW rigidly adhere to their own VST standard (regarding plugin routing) rendered them nearly useless, while they work magnificently in Ableton and Reason.

There are a lot of people who are absolutely convinced that Steinberg is too big to fail. If they dig in their heels and don't change, their failure is inevitable, even if it takes time to play out. Honestly, CLAP is the best thing to happen to them in a decade. When they can no longer rely upon their stranglehold on VST licensing, it will force them to adapt and improve.

[a9k1tp]

in cases such as Octasine, some other textual language altogether.

Wow, good to see a plugin written in Rust programming language. Rust is the new sexy. Thanks for mentioning it.

[DJMaytag]

There are a lot of people who are absolutely convinced that Steinberg is too big to fail.

Their userbase is aging, so there might be a lot of people using Cubase since the Atari 1040 days, but their days are numbered (sorry if that sounds dark, but I'm up there in the years too, having been a 1040STe user back in the 90's). I would be shocked if there was much in the way of anyone under 35 using Cubase.

[S0lo]

If I had a winning strategy here, it would be getting Ableton on board with CLAP as the #1 goal, and Reason a close #2.

I’d add flstudio to the list. It has a massive user base. Well, it shows as one of the most popular every time I look up some stats.

[liquidsound]

Ableton is a must.
Their M4L is ideal for CLAP and the way Ableton does marketing, it will turn CLAP into a cult!

[pdxindy]

Ableton is a must.
Their M4L is ideal for CLAP and the way Ableton does marketing, it will turn CLAP into a cult!

Ableton Live modulation (including M4L) is monophonic, not per voice. They would have to change the underlying architecture of Live if you were thinking of per voice modulation like CLAP in Bitwig.

[liquidsound]

Ableton is a must.
Their M4L is ideal for CLAP and the way Ableton does marketing, it will turn CLAP into a cult!

Ableton Live modulation (including M4L) is monophonic, not per voice. They would have to change the underlying architecture of Live if you were thinking of per voice modulation like CLAP in Bitwig.

People thought they couldn't implement MPE at any level without changing the underlying architecture....
Things may move in the underlying world without "Notice".
Ableton can still surprise us.
I don't buy the theory of rewrite from scratch.
$ does it.

[skijumptoes]

There are a lot of people who are absolutely convinced that Steinberg is too big to fail. If they dig in their heels and don't change, their failure is inevitable, even if it takes time to play out.

I Agree, SB are on unprecedented ground. Their licensing, or rather protection has fallen on it's face and it must have a knock on effect for sales in the coming years.

They've dealt with this in the past, but today there's so much competition around that is built on more modern foundations and thus is snappier and quicker to support new features that a younger crowd seek.

Adopting CLAP and just dropping this need to rule with VST3 would probably aid them as they're then working to a standard rather than having the overhead of setting it. The biggest problem is that their own DAW's aren't leading technically, so it's almost an impossibility for them to lead a plugin format, as I see it anyway.

i.e. How can you set a standard for modulation when your own host doesn't do modulation? We're still having to load up MIDI LFO inserts that send out MIDI CC and then map the plugin parameters to a MIDI CC message - it's so archaic.

And then they have the audacity to try and block MIDI CC functions in VST3 plugins - you just think to yourself "Have you used your host?". Seems there's too many heads with their own ideas running in separate directions.

This is why we end up with 'new' features (Such as the MIDI Remote added in C12) being bolt-ons to 20+ year old code. It's obvious they've had to navigate around the shit that's there already, when what they should've done is cleared it out and put in a modern system.

It'll bite them on the arse bolting-on like this. They're building houses on crumbling land.

But I love using Cubase, and just hope they do turn things around. I don't think CLAP will cause them any issues as it doesn't seem to be competition to VST3, rather an alternative. And unless CLAP is offering real world benefits I don't think many Steinberg users would care to be honest.

It's Steinberg themselves and the yearly sales drive which is the biggest threat. There comes a point where they need to address the core foundations of their software.

[teilo]

Adopting CLAP and just dropping this need to rule with VST3 would probably aid them as they're then working to a standard rather than having the overhead of setting it. The biggest problem is that their own DAW's aren't leading technically, so it's almost an impossibility for them to lead a plugin format, as I see it anyway.

I don't see them ever adopting CLAP. But I do see them reacting to it, and improving their own products and frameworks. Steinberg has never learned what Apple and Microsoft already know: It's the developers, stupid.

[EvilDragon]

Developers, developers, developers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhh_GeBPOhs

[fabio77]

I don't see them ever adopting CLAP. But I do see them reacting to it, and improving their own products and frameworks. Steinberg has never learned what Apple and Microsoft already know: It's the developers, stupid.

If CLAP really is such efficient, functional and easy to implement, there would be no excuse to not adopt it (I know, Steinberg does not excuse . I think creating a new product/framework could only work if it's already in progress and could be released not too long after CLAP is working stable on a growing base.
I think it's a good thing, that CLAP has been introduced now already working and not as an idea. And I'm really excited about this progress. And as I said, if it's really such efficient and functional (and plugin manufacturers use it), then people would rather switch to a DAW that supports it, than miss it.

I'm using Cubase for 20 years and I am accustomized to its worklow and love it. But I'm switching already to a DAW that supports Linux, now I finally got my plugins running there. I wished Steinberg would have supported their DAW on Linux, but they don't. And if people want CLAP and can have it, they will switch.

So, I hope the progress of CLAP will go fast and easy. I hope the companies just listed (Fabfilter, Valhalla, Cockos, Epic Games, Avid) really join. And then maybe we don't have to care what Steinberg is doing anymore but perhaps they do.

[k2006]

If a free & opensource vsthost like Kushview's Elements becomes Clap enabled more people can test clap plugins

[liquidsound]

If a free & opensource vsthost like Kushview's Elements becomes Clap enabled more people can test clap plugins

Or download Reaper (eventually soon?) and test.

[machinesworking]

I wouldn't be holding my breath on Steinberg, Avid, or Apple opening things up to CLAP unless every other major DAW developer but those three were CLAP friendly.

Avid is on board and were part of the original CLAP announcement.

From a major host perspective, it sounds like CLAP will exist in Bitwig, Reaper, Studio One, and Pro Tools in the future. And that's just based on who has said they were on board with CLAP. I'm sure some others are considering it behind the scenes or taking a wait and see approach. But yeah, I'm not expecting Steiny to adopt CLAP any time soon.

Yeah, Logic and Cubase will be last in line or maybe not at all.
So DP, Live, ReNoise and Reason join up, that would create the unstoppable force level change.

IMO all of this should have happened 20 years ago. The Logic team always had complaints about the way VSTs worked in Logic, there's always been a reason to have a third party format that wasn't tied to a particular DAW (or OS), giving that DAW specific advantages over others etc.