So... for the last TWO months I've been trying to record final vocals on my tracks, only ever having used scratch vocals for the arrangement process.
I had NO IDEA how hard it is to get that "professional" vocal sound, but... it's just horrendous. The singing itself is fine, it's the overall fidelity and the sound as it pertains to the mix.
In the last two months, I've watched literally hundreds of tutorials on tracking and mixing vocals, vocal fx chains, mic placement, room deadening, etc, etc.
I've tried TEN microphones.
MXL Revelation Tube (the original one, not the current iteration)
MXL V69 Tube
MXL CR89
EV RE320
AKG C414
AKG D5
Aston Origin (My absolute least favorite fyi)
Rode NT1A
Warm Audio WA47jr
Slate VMS ML-1
I've tried going through an external preamp (GAP Pre-73 Premier) and going directly into my interface (SSL2). (I prefer the direct to interface sound every time)
I've tried singing in my small studio room with nothing on the walls, I've tried it with vellux blankets on most of the wall and I've tried recording literally singing underneath a big vellux blanket.
Nothing sounds like I want it to sound. I mean, nothing sounds like "a record". And what's odd is, I've copied dozens of online tutorials, used the exact same plugins, in the exact same order, with the exact same settings, and THEIR VOX sounds like "a record", mine still sound like some kind of amateur demo recording or something.
Oddly, I like my vocal recordings better with very little processing, but everyone with a "how to mix vocals" tutorial is making these five processor chains in the inserts and two processors on the sends and when I run my recordings through these various chains, my vox quickly starts to sound... like a recording, like electronic and effected.
What really makes me confused is that my scratch vox, recorded with a $50.00 handheld dynamic stage mic (AKG P3S) straight into my interface sounds so much better soloed AND within the mix, and ALL it has on it is a little reverb and a little delay and maybe just the slightest touch of an eq here and there.
I mean, all this stuff for "final" vocals, all these mics, all these fancy plugins, all these tutorials, and I can't even get my "final vocals" to sound as good as my scratch vox? How is that possible?
Two months into the process, 8-10 hours a day trying everything I can think of, and I'm still at square one. Starting to think it's hopeless.
Does anyone have any insight they'd like to share?
How To Get Professional Sounding Vocals?
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- KVRist
- 61 posts since 30 Oct, 2018
What genre are you producing? A professional sound can be so much, from polished Celine Dion to lofi Jack White.
Anyway: I always start with gain staging. Once that is set, I add plugins one by one, and tweak them as I add.
It will typically go like this:
First maybe a preamp sim, if it can add some warmth.
Then I add an Eq to do subtractive eq: most importert is to find a good setting for the highpass filter, then take away if there are troubles somewhere in the mids, and in the end maybe lowpass filtering. This should be a neutral eq, like REAeq, for instance.
Then I add a fast compressor. Typically an 1176-emu, to take out the highest peaks. How much gain reduction depends on that particular track.
Now it's time for additive eq, to highlight whatever frequency that needs to come forward. This can very well be an eq that adds colour and saturation, like many hw-emus do, something like emus of neve, helios and api eqs.
And then, another compressor, something slow like a la2a emu. This is for final leveling. Remember that when you compress in two stages, each compressor needs to do less gain reducing.
Also, if you think by now that the overall sound is good, but levels are still inconsistant, take a look at automating the level of the track before it hits the chain.
When you are done wit this, send your track to a main vocal bus. Also set up an aux track or two for effects like delay and reverb, and send those to the main vocal bus too. Maybe compress and eq the effects.
And then, you can add final compression and eq to that bus as well.
Listen closely for each action, and remember that because there are many steps, smaller touches are often better.
This way, you should be able to get a good professional sound with high fidelity. You can of course add other things, like tape emus, running your vocals through guitar amp sims and all sorts of stuff.
Hope this helps!
Anyway: I always start with gain staging. Once that is set, I add plugins one by one, and tweak them as I add.
It will typically go like this:
First maybe a preamp sim, if it can add some warmth.
Then I add an Eq to do subtractive eq: most importert is to find a good setting for the highpass filter, then take away if there are troubles somewhere in the mids, and in the end maybe lowpass filtering. This should be a neutral eq, like REAeq, for instance.
Then I add a fast compressor. Typically an 1176-emu, to take out the highest peaks. How much gain reduction depends on that particular track.
Now it's time for additive eq, to highlight whatever frequency that needs to come forward. This can very well be an eq that adds colour and saturation, like many hw-emus do, something like emus of neve, helios and api eqs.
And then, another compressor, something slow like a la2a emu. This is for final leveling. Remember that when you compress in two stages, each compressor needs to do less gain reducing.
Also, if you think by now that the overall sound is good, but levels are still inconsistant, take a look at automating the level of the track before it hits the chain.
When you are done wit this, send your track to a main vocal bus. Also set up an aux track or two for effects like delay and reverb, and send those to the main vocal bus too. Maybe compress and eq the effects.
And then, you can add final compression and eq to that bus as well.
Listen closely for each action, and remember that because there are many steps, smaller touches are often better.
This way, you should be able to get a good professional sound with high fidelity. You can of course add other things, like tape emus, running your vocals through guitar amp sims and all sorts of stuff.
Hope this helps!
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- KVRAF
- 3086 posts since 4 May, 2012
Knowing why you are doing things, rather than following tutorials is how to approach this. I was writing in another thread that engineering is all about solving problems - which first need identifying. When you are listening to recordings of your voice you should be able to hear what you don't want and what you want to emphasise and then work from there with the tools that you have.
One thing you can be sure of, it's not your microphone selection. The AKG 414 is one of my favourite mics. It's like a Swiss Army Knife for audio applications.
It might well be the editing: If you are rushing or even skipping this stage then you'll never end up with professional results. Every stage is vital and editing is just as important as any. It can be boring (used to be for me) and can take a long time but it's well worth putting in the hours here.
You need to identify your best takes and make a comp from these. Once you have a central take, you can start working on additional comps that you can layer into the final sound. I don't know which genre you are working with but the majority use multiple layers of vocals - not only to bolster the main vocal but also for spot effects. Don't presume you can have too many vocal layers.
Something that might be slightly odd and that might be overlooked by people outside of the industry is ear candy that is not always clearly audible in recordings. A breathy track with a softer and more seductive vocal style is often also mixed into the main vocal of pop music and used for spot effects.
I'll talk about processing in a post a little later but the important thing is that you understand the tools you are using so that you know when and how to apply them.
One thing you can be sure of, it's not your microphone selection. The AKG 414 is one of my favourite mics. It's like a Swiss Army Knife for audio applications.
It might well be the editing: If you are rushing or even skipping this stage then you'll never end up with professional results. Every stage is vital and editing is just as important as any. It can be boring (used to be for me) and can take a long time but it's well worth putting in the hours here.
You need to identify your best takes and make a comp from these. Once you have a central take, you can start working on additional comps that you can layer into the final sound. I don't know which genre you are working with but the majority use multiple layers of vocals - not only to bolster the main vocal but also for spot effects. Don't presume you can have too many vocal layers.
Something that might be slightly odd and that might be overlooked by people outside of the industry is ear candy that is not always clearly audible in recordings. A breathy track with a softer and more seductive vocal style is often also mixed into the main vocal of pop music and used for spot effects.
I'll talk about processing in a post a little later but the important thing is that you understand the tools you are using so that you know when and how to apply them.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 59 posts since 22 Aug, 2022
Thank you Raksha! I'll be trying this tomorrow!Raksha wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:21 am What genre are you producing? A professional sound can be so much, from polished Celine Dion to lofi Jack White.
Anyway: I always start with gain staging. Once that is set, I add plugins one by one, and tweak them as I add.
It will typically go like this:
First maybe a preamp sim, if it can add some warmth.
Then I add an Eq to do subtractive eq: most importert is to find a good setting for the highpass filter, then take away if there are troubles somewhere in the mids, and in the end maybe lowpass filtering. This should be a neutral eq, like REAeq, for instance.
Then I add a fast compressor. Typically an 1176-emu, to take out the highest peaks. How much gain reduction depends on that particular track.
Now it's time for additive eq, to highlight whatever frequency that needs to come forward. This can very well be an eq that adds colour and saturation, like many hw-emus do, something like emus of neve, helios and api eqs.
And then, another compressor, something slow like a la2a emu. This is for final leveling. Remember that when you compress in two stages, each compressor needs to do less gain reducing.
Also, if you think by now that the overall sound is good, but levels are still inconsistant, take a look at automating the level of the track before it hits the chain.
When you are done wit this, send your track to a main vocal bus. Also set up an aux track or two for effects like delay and reverb, and send those to the main vocal bus too. Maybe compress and eq the effects.
And then, you can add final compression and eq to that bus as well.
Listen closely for each action, and remember that because there are many steps, smaller touches are often better.
This way, you should be able to get a good professional sound with high fidelity. You can of course add other things, like tape emus, running your vocals through guitar amp sims and all sorts of stuff.
Hope this helps!
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 59 posts since 22 Aug, 2022
Thank you unsuspected. I'm eager to hear your tips on processing soon.Unaspected wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:04 pm Knowing why you are doing things, rather than following tutorials is how to approach this. I was writing in another thread that engineering is all about solving problems - which first need identifying. When you are listening to recordings of your voice you should be able to hear what you don't want and what you want to emphasise and then work from there with the tools that you have.
One thing you can be sure of, it's not your microphone selection. The AKG 414 is one of my favourite mics. It's like a Swiss Army Knife for audio applications.
It might well be the editing: If you are rushing or even skipping this stage then you'll never end up with professional results. Every stage is vital and editing is just as important as any. It can be boring (used to be for me) and can take a long time but it's well worth putting in the hours here.
You need to identify your best takes and make a comp from these. Once you have a central take, you can start working on additional comps that you can layer into the final sound. I don't know which genre you are working with but the majority use multiple layers of vocals - not only to bolster the main vocal but also for spot effects. Don't presume you can have too many vocal layers.
Something that might be slightly odd and that might be overlooked by people outside of the industry is ear candy that is not always clearly audible in recordings. A breathy track with a softer and more seductive vocal style is often also mixed into the main vocal of pop music and used for spot effects.
I'll talk about processing in a post a little later but the important thing is that you understand the tools you are using so that you know when and how to apply them.
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- KVRist
- 486 posts since 8 May, 2007
Hi Domlun,
You wrote that you liked your nearly unaffected vocals better than the processed ones.
Assuming that you are using your own voice:
Are you listening to unprocessed vocals while recording? If so, I would recommend using some processing that is close to what you expect to use so that you can get feedback as to how it's all being processed rather than recording dry. When electric guitarists record, they don't record without listening to an amplified version of what they are playing being fed back to them somehow. Similarly vocalists need something to listen to that is processed at least a little bit like the final result will be.
If you're already doing that, then all I can offer is that in my experience, it takes some practice to get it to sound right. Your voice is unique and therefore the processing is also unique. All anyone can do is give you some starting processes to try out, then tweak.
It also takes (for most of us) a lot of practice to sound even the least bit convincing. It may take 100 takes to get something to sound even close to right, then dozens of processing variations, especially if you don't have much experience. If your next song isn't like the previous one, then it's like starting over again. Maybe the second song will be a happy one whereas the first one was sad. You may very well need different vocal techniques and new processing.
I consider the microphone and the processing chain to constitute an instrument that one has to learn how to play. Like playing any instrument, it takes an extraordinarly amount of time to learn how to do it even passably for most of us.
You wrote that you liked your nearly unaffected vocals better than the processed ones.
Assuming that you are using your own voice:
Are you listening to unprocessed vocals while recording? If so, I would recommend using some processing that is close to what you expect to use so that you can get feedback as to how it's all being processed rather than recording dry. When electric guitarists record, they don't record without listening to an amplified version of what they are playing being fed back to them somehow. Similarly vocalists need something to listen to that is processed at least a little bit like the final result will be.
If you're already doing that, then all I can offer is that in my experience, it takes some practice to get it to sound right. Your voice is unique and therefore the processing is also unique. All anyone can do is give you some starting processes to try out, then tweak.
It also takes (for most of us) a lot of practice to sound even the least bit convincing. It may take 100 takes to get something to sound even close to right, then dozens of processing variations, especially if you don't have much experience. If your next song isn't like the previous one, then it's like starting over again. Maybe the second song will be a happy one whereas the first one was sad. You may very well need different vocal techniques and new processing.
I consider the microphone and the processing chain to constitute an instrument that one has to learn how to play. Like playing any instrument, it takes an extraordinarly amount of time to learn how to do it even passably for most of us.