Plugins Comparison - Are The Most Famous/Suggested Better For Real?

[Uncle E]

-deleted-

[MogwaiBoy]

"No 2 hardware units sound alike" - is so overstated the way it is used to basically explain away any differences between plugin emulations.

[bambu]

These comparisons are very well done, not much talks but audio, straight to the point. Thanks for this format

[Frankie.T]

"No 2 hardware units sound alike" - is so overstated the way it is used to basically explain away any differences between plugin emulations.

This can be a reason for certain differences, but sometime i've noticed a very different behavior that cannot be achieved by a difference between hardware units. So it can be a developing decision, or something else in the process.
Anyway i find this super exciting, because i knew every plugin sounds different, but i never got, at least between certain products, to be so much different and imo it's a plus, the more character the more customization for our music

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Playing with plugins can be fun sometimes, but if you dig seriously into it, it's also very informative.
I don't know what's your process when you try to evaluate a plugin for a purchase, or just when you try to understand which one is generally better, or what's the best for a specific job.

I was used to test 2 or 3 max between the most suggested on internet, cause going furhter it's very time consuming!!!
Anyway you may leave on the table good products, just because you didn't even take them into considerations, or you may even overestimate a plugin just because it's usually the one people like to suggest.
But people's suggestions may be the result of the same process, 2-3 comparison and call it a day.

Don't get me wrong, this may be good enough to pick good products, but for audio nerds (like me) who enjoy the discussion, and are genuinely curious, can be very interesting to do something more.
For that reason i've decided to tests different plugins of the same kind


The first comparison it's about Pultec EQ, i tried to match with plugin doctor the eq curve trying to make them to sound as close as possible, but i discovered some of them have a very different response, so the sound can be very different, but i got the tonal differences, so instead to go back to matching them just using my ears, i decided to keep a more "scientific" approach.
At the end, knobs and frequencies response are part of the plugins.

If you want you can watch the video in the following link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTekpVzE7o

a tl;dw some of them sound pretty similar, while others sound like i made a big mistake with knobs (expecially one that's very dark) but if plugin doctor didn't had any weirdness, they are all with the samish curve. Anyway as i wrote before, with this listening i got what i was looking for, and to me there is not a complete winner, but i just spotted the one who i enjoy the more how low freq sounds, and the one who sound very balanced and natural


The next comparison i'm working on is between 1176 emulations, and i can already say that's even more interesting.


If you have any suggestion/request feel free to share it, i'm very curious to know your experience with plugins comparison and with plugins you usually use for different purposes

Pultec

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTekpVzE7o

1176

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0oxTe4Q55g

La-2a

https://youtu.be/f801C-5DyeI

Frankie, some feedback if I may:

"Now is the moment where I share my thoughts...but honestly I don't want to bias..."

...that didn't come across to me as not wanting to bias anyone, that came across as not wanting to stick your neck out and share your opinion on the analysis you performed. If I'm doing any analysis at work, I'm going to be asked to summarize my conclusions and offer my opinions on the data, draw some conclusions, etc. I can't tell my bosses, "well, I showed you the data, I don't want to bias you, what did YOU think?" I'd get laughed out of the room, and if I still refused to share, they'd find someone else who would provide analysis. You're supposed to be doing the work so we don't have to, and then the reward are the likes, subs, and comments. It just came across to me as unprofessional - like you're not confident in your own opinions/ears. I'd rather disagree with a YouTuber who drew a different conclusion than I did, then watch videos from someone who won't draw any conclusions.

Additionally, I'd recommend showing the Plugin Doctor curves and getting into the differences you're seeing. Like, "hmmm...notice how narrow the boost is at max compared to the other units - this one doesn't behave like the others." Also, keep in mind that with anything that saturates, Plugin Doctor's linear tab can get very wonky. You may need to switch to the Harmonics tab and do a sweep on the fundamental.

What I like is that you kept the A/B examples short, but I'd maybe go even shorter, a 1 bar loop. And alternate between your favorites on the material once you determine which those are. Show some confidence in your skills+ears and draw some conclusions along the way. Some videos have way too much playing with not enough cutting between which makes it harder to hear the difference. And watchers may want to hear different units put up right next to each other in a different order than you present, which is why I'd start calling out favorites and A/B'ing those against each other versus just going through the same order every time.

I hope you keep making more videos but please consider some of the above feedback.

[Frankie.T]

Playing with plugins can be fun sometimes, but if you dig seriously into it, it's also very informative.
I don't know what's your process when you try to evaluate a plugin for a purchase, or just when you try to understand which one is generally better, or what's the best for a specific job.

I was used to test 2 or 3 max between the most suggested on internet, cause going furhter it's very time consuming!!!
Anyway you may leave on the table good products, just because you didn't even take them into considerations, or you may even overestimate a plugin just because it's usually the one people like to suggest.
But people's suggestions may be the result of the same process, 2-3 comparison and call it a day.

Don't get me wrong, this may be good enough to pick good products, but for audio nerds (like me) who enjoy the discussion, and are genuinely curious, can be very interesting to do something more.
For that reason i've decided to tests different plugins of the same kind


The first comparison it's about Pultec EQ, i tried to match with plugin doctor the eq curve trying to make them to sound as close as possible, but i discovered some of them have a very different response, so the sound can be very different, but i got the tonal differences, so instead to go back to matching them just using my ears, i decided to keep a more "scientific" approach.
At the end, knobs and frequencies response are part of the plugins.

If you want you can watch the video in the following link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTekpVzE7o

a tl;dw some of them sound pretty similar, while others sound like i made a big mistake with knobs (expecially one that's very dark) but if plugin doctor didn't had any weirdness, they are all with the samish curve. Anyway as i wrote before, with this listening i got what i was looking for, and to me there is not a complete winner, but i just spotted the one who i enjoy the more how low freq sounds, and the one who sound very balanced and natural


The next comparison i'm working on is between 1176 emulations, and i can already say that's even more interesting.


If you have any suggestion/request feel free to share it, i'm very curious to know your experience with plugins comparison and with plugins you usually use for different purposes

Pultec

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTekpVzE7o

1176

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0oxTe4Q55g

La-2a

https://youtu.be/f801C-5DyeI

Frankie, some feedback if I may:

"Now is the moment where I share my thoughts...but honestly I don't want to bias..."

...that didn't come across to me as not wanting to bias anyone, that came across as not wanting to stick your neck out and share your opinion on the analysis you performed. If I'm doing any analysis at work, I'm going to be asked to summarize my conclusions and offer my opinions on the data, draw some conclusions, etc. I can't tell my bosses, "well, I showed you the data, I don't want to bias you, what did YOU think?" I'd get laughed out of the room, and if I still refused to share, they'd find someone else who would provide analysis. You're supposed to be doing the work so we don't have to, and then the reward are the likes, subs, and comments. It just came across to me as unprofessional - like you're not confident in your own opinions/ears. I'd rather disagree with a YouTuber who drew a different conclusion than I did, then watch videos from someone who won't draw any conclusions.

Additionally, I'd recommend showing the Plugin Doctor curves and getting into the differences you're seeing. Like, "hmmm...notice how narrow the boost is at max compared to the other units - this one doesn't behave like the others." Also, keep in mind that with anything that saturates, Plugin Doctor's linear tab can get very wonky. You may need to switch to the Harmonics tab and do a sweep on the fundamental.

What I like is that you kept the A/B examples short, but I'd maybe go even shorter, a 1 bar loop. And alternate between your favorites on the material once you determine which those are. Show some confidence in your skills+ears and draw some conclusions along the way. Some videos have way too much playing with not enough cutting between which makes it harder to hear the difference. And watchers may want to hear different units put up right next to each other in a different order than you present, which is why I'd start calling out favorites and A/B'ing those against each other versus just going through the same order every time.

I hope you keep making more videos but please consider some of the above feedback.

I understand your point of view about giving my opinion at the end, this is something i always do when reviewing new plugins, but in this comparison, i prefer to be neutral.
The purpose of these videos is to give to viewers an option to compare these plugins without getting mad doing it by their own, cause it's a huge work to do.
Being neutral without any input or preference imo, it's a good way to let viewers ears to be the only judges, without anyone who whisper into it.

The example about a job, doesn't really fit here, because it's a very different situation. This is more like a political votes, where every plugin is a candidate and i'm a kind of journalist, if during political elections where the journalists host a candidate, will say "he is better" probably he will be fired.
I'm not saying your suggestion is wrong, but would be just a different approach for a different purpose.

The plugin doctor idea, was in my mind but the video would be crazy long, and this is something i always try to avoid, as viewer myself i'm not a fan of long video, so i try to keep them to the essence, going directly to the point. Someone may like it while someone else may not, this is a situation where you make unhappy and happy someone no matter what.

About the sample lenght i also made different try, and i find shorter loop not a good way to understand differences in this situation. Cause our ears need a bit of time to be used to a certain dynamic and curves, and it may even be subjective at certain point, so could be good for someone but less for someone else, but certainly it's more ear fatiguing, so i preferred to chose the way everyone can ear differences in a more natural way.

Thank you for taking your time to share your feedback with me, i appreciate it

[TIMT]

"No 2 hardware units sound alike" - is so overstated the way it is used to basically explain away any differences between plugin emulations.

Yes!! Finally somebody came out and said this. It's such a copout excuse and it gets really tedious seeing it parroted

Speaking as somebody who has been hybrid for over 10 years now there's lots of stuff (albeit subtle sometimes)that i hear plugin emulations never capture that simply cannot be explained away as tolerance differences between units. It's something lacking fundamental to the modelling approach itself which is why i mostly like certain plugins for their developers "house sound", not whether or not they model something really well or not.

In terms of modelling though and sounding like analog, UAD is the closest i have heard get the full picture sound, but there are loads of developers who do analog models i like that don't really sound all that analog e.g Audio Thing for example

My 2p: judge these plugins on the merits of them being their own thing, since the accurate modelling claims are largely hyperbole. They are all just different spins on approximations of systems that are impossible to model in their entirety ITB if we are being honest, and if the developers were being honest, they'd admit as much. There's a lot of room for nuance in an approximation and it really boils down to the developers ear in how the final product sounds

[Frankie.T]

"No 2 hardware units sound alike" - is so overstated the way it is used to basically explain away any differences between plugin emulations.

Yes!! Finally somebody came out and said this. It's such a copout excuse and it gets really tedious seeing it parroted

Speaking as somebody who has been hybrid for over 10 years now there's lots of stuff (albeit subtle sometimes)that i hear plugin emulations never capture that simply cannot be explained away as tolerance differences between units. It's something fundamental to the modelling approach itself which is why i mostly like certain plugins for their developers "house sound", not whether or not they model something really well or not.

In terms of modelling though and sounding like analog, UAD is the closest i have heard get the full picture sound, but there are loads of developers who do analog models i like that don't really sound all that analog e.g Audio Thing for example

My 2p: judge these plugins on the merits of them being their own thing, since the accurate modelling claims are largely hyperbole. They are all just different spins on approximations of systems that are impossible to model in their entirety ITB if we are being honest, and if the developers were being honest, they'd admit as much. There's a lot of room for nuance in an approximation and it really boils down to the developers ear in how the final product sounds

In my tests it's something that came out. I see few plugins to react in a similar way, while for the most it's just about to be something very different by each other, even if it shoudn't.
I don't think it's bad, cause the more flavor the more choices, but as you wrote if someone is close to hardware others are a plugin that doesn't really emulate it, otherwise i would see less differences

[Dirtgrain]

Blind test, now!

[Frankie.T]

SSL 4000E Comparison

https://youtu.be/AVXwJokANmw

Plugins in this comparison:
Brainworx bx_console SSL 4000E,
Slate Digital FG-S,
Waves SSL-E,
Acustica Audio Sand 3,
Melda Production MTurboEQ,
IK Multimedia British Channel,
SSL Native Channel Strip 2 (this is a 9000k emu)


Do you have any favourite between these?

[Synthman2000]

"I don't know what's your process when you try to evaluate a plugin for a purchase"

Unless there is someone using the plugins in a studio superior to my own which demonstrates superior knowledge as well as the equipment to judge properly (i.e. not a set of average studio monitors with a ribbon tweeter, literally everyone already owns those so they can hear themselves). Youtube along with its AAC audio lossy compression is the last place I go to find out.

I download demo, set some tests up and listen A/B volume matched where appropriate. I usually reliably know within about 2-3 mins. I might occasionally be wrong and need more time. The last thing you should do when selecting your tools is listen to other people. Most don't know their a$$ from their elbow, it's like the blind leading the blind.

Use your own ears and testing methodology to find out if something is valuable or not.

[Frankie.T]

It's Fairchild time!!!

https://youtu.be/w6cK8-62oKo


In this episode we compare:
IK Multimedia Model 670,
Waves Puigchild,
Overloud Gem Comp 670,
SlateDigital FG-MU,
Acustica Audio Ultramarine,
Tone Empire Firechild,
Melda Production MTurboComp - Fairmeld


Do you have any preference between them?