The V chord is boring?

[exist01]

So I've come to a point where I'm finding the V chord to be almost unusably basic. Part of it is that the major 7th interval for the V sounds very out of key and can't be used in most cases, and the dominant 7th interval doesn't sound great a lot of the time either. This makes it so that most of the time the V chord remains a basic major triad, which is super lame. I find that I'm using the iiim7 a lot more instead of the V, since the iiim7 uses the same notes as the V but with a fuller sound (albeit in minor). Anyway I'm wondering what alternatives there might be to using the V chord as more than a basic triad so that it actually sounds harmonically rich/interesting as a chord.

[jancivil]

try V7 b5. spell the harmony from the flat five, it’s bII7 b5.
this is chromatic music, which I recommend some preparation for, but you can simply check it out.
borrow bits of the parallel minor, nonchord tones at weak or strong beats…

unresolved suspension, ie., a 4-3 doesn’t resolve and remains *Do* of the key.

but perhaps first find and listen to/study models, for a more expansive vocabulary.

I find leading tone-tonic resolution tiresome like 95% of the time, personally. That said, iii-I is called ‘weak progression’. But you can elide and fug with the resolution…

[jancivil]

also look into a concept called predominant, setting up V in novel ways (other than ii or IV et al). Again the interest comes more in chromatic usage or more from [parallel] minor.

[Jafo]

V-I isn't the only game in town. The plagal cadence, IV-I, is awesome. Hey, Jude, try bVII-IV-I. IV-i also rules; ask my friend Dorian. Especially cool if the IV chord has 5 in the root (so, F/G - C.) I think my fave is iimin7/5-I; it's a variant of the previous.

You can also get t lot of joy with a doubly-diminished 7 resolving to any chord whose root is one step higher than any note in that dim7. For example, b-d-f-ab resolving to any chord whose root is c, eb, f#, or a.

You can also experiment with inversions and adding extra notes to the V(7).

Happy experimenting!

[astralprojection]

What's a v chord??
I'm familiar with an e or a d but I never heard of a v??

[vurt]

What's a v chord??
I'm familiar with an e or a d but I never heard of a v??

a scale has 7 notes
each note is a root note for a chord.
the 5th note in the scale, which ever chord builds on this, is the 5th degree of the key, and the v chord.
from roman numerals counting up the scale

[vurt]

although lower case is minor, capital is major.

[astralprojection]

Oh okay thanks

[jancivil]

the Hey Jude thing comes out of Gospel tendency, known as double plagal ie., IV/IV, IV, I. Amen some more again.

I take your meaning no problem with “doubly diminished”, in that it’s what the classroom has as a diminished/diminished tetrad or chord of the seventh, but a double diminished interval at a 7th doesn’t happen. EG: C to B triple flat.[/pedant off]


the fun in harmony for me comes not so much in block construction but in parts writing; so a dull sort of dominant can be snuck into or out of, or perverted.

[EdwardGivens]

Funny I was just thinking on t'Plagal cadence, which I associate especially with English music from days of yore - Good King Wenceslas?
Ain't nothin' like perverting your dominants.

[seangm]

nvm

[nights_blood]

Completely depends on the context. In a major key pop song, the V/V7 may or may not be appropriate. Whereas in any darker piece of music, you can almost certainly make it so. Also, play with inversions. No reason it needs to be a root position triad. You can put the 3rd in the bass, or the 5th, even the 7th if you're feeling saucy.

[jancivil]

Everything of music is contextual.
Speaking of inversion, learning part-writing and a more linear approach to harmony tends to relieve the sort of flatness or dullness of yer usual chord changes.

for instance G/F to C/E, aka V4/2 to I6 [in C] … in context o’ course

[Artie Fichelle]

the more I think about chord progressions, the less I think they are the main point. I can take chord progressions from Bird, Corea, Bach, you name it, and they are quite simple. So it is the other parts too, that make a good piece, the melody over the progressions and the rythm. And last but not least the performance. For good chord progressions alone you can use tools like scaler etc. But that is only one aspect. Keep the whole picture.

[jancivil]

Well, there’s music where the kind of harmonic progression (or the way it’s handled) is, or is a big part of the point.

Then there’s Pachelbel’s Canon, ostinato bass outlining I V vi iii | IV I IV V | I til ya die.
a Chaconne generally does the same, and these aren’t what they are otherwise.

OTOH, DooWop mostly stays with a comparatively less distinctive move, ice cream changes, and the melody is the only unique feature, song to song. Blues, the progression isn’t the interest…

it seemed an obvious thing to bring in, the melody etc etc but also slightly off point to me.