iZotope Vinyl vs Unfiltered Audio Needlepoint

[lightsfadelow]

All I could use your thoughts on these two effects:

I was seconds away from buying Unfiltered Audio's Needlepoint as part of the Plugin Alliance "Mega Sale" when I received an email from iZotope about Vinyl. I've used Vinyl a bunch in the past, but as I've switched to a native M1 setup when it wasn't native, I hadn't installed it again. The email prompted me to check and I discovered my old favorite had been updated (along with StutterEdit 2, merry xmas to me!).

I am trying to build a $99 bundle of Unfiltered''s effects and I had chosen TRIAD ($50), Needlepoint ($25), and Lo-Fi-AF ($25) as my 3. But now I'm wondering if I should go for Silo ($50) instead of the latter two and stick with the free Vinyl as my only vinyl emulator.

I did some demoing of Needlepoint, and what I liked about it was less the dirt and scratches, more the pleasing compression/warmth effect you could get out of it that I don't remember Vinyl having. It theoretically physically models a record player whereas I think Vinyl is a bit simpler. But I'm told (on this very forum) that Silo is something special as well, and if I bought the 3 I was originally planning to buy, I wouldn't have this at all.

Thoughts?

[kidslow]

I don't know Needlepoint, so couldn't say specifically about it, but you've already identified some of the limitations in Vinyl. There are a myriad of ways for approaching a "vinyl" sound that range from free to Tokyo Dawn's new offering, so don't feel hemmed in by the two choices you are posing to yourself.

Izotope's Vinyl to me always seems so limited compared to the field. Not sure what's under the hood that it took so long to uplift to M1. I'm a tinkerer and like to explore options so I splurged $6 the other day on PTFR Vinyl IRs. I don't know that they'll be better or worse than the plugins and samples I already have, but I was curious if they might be another layer I can add to the mix. Maybe those along with Izo's Vinyl?

[itanever]

Needlepoint is super flexible and it has more options than Vinyl. If you're into that sort of thing, then it's definitely a must have in my opinion. I haven't really gelled with Silo, not really a fan of the reverbs on it either. Maybe if it had the modulation section that their earlier plugins have I'd like it more. Really a missed oportunity imho. I think there are better granular fx out there, including BYOME and TRIAD which can both do granular and then some. Safe to say I'd go with Needlepoint.

[jinotsuh]

viewtopic.php?t=590549

[inaheartbeat]

I have used Needlepoint since it was in beta. I think it is a really good plugin which does a particular type of effect well if you get the hang of it. One thing I would recommend is not trying to find the "perfect" settings for a particular track. My experience is things like surface dust/pops don't always sound as randomized as I would like it in a given setting. What I would recommend is putting it on a track with some subtle settings and then printing that track with the effect. Then, take that printed track and run it again through Needlepoint with the settings changed. It makes things more mixed up than a single pass through that you try to make perfect. Just keep rinsing and repeating till satisfied.

[Tj Shredder]

I'm a tinkerer and like to explore options so I splurged $6 the other day on PTFR Vinyl IRs. I don't know that they'll be better or worse than the plugins and samples I already have, but I was curious if they might be another layer I can add to the mix. Maybe those along with Izo's Vinyl?

Using IR for vinyl emulation is a pretty stupid idea. It cannot not reproduce the rumble correctly. Not only each place of a vinyl is different, also each vinyl is different. To believe to capture such a universe with 12 samples is beyond naiv…

[kidslow]

I'm a tinkerer and like to explore options so I splurged $6 the other day on PTFR Vinyl IRs. I don't know that they'll be better or worse than the plugins and samples I already have, but I was curious if they might be another layer I can add to the mix. Maybe those along with Izo's Vinyl?

Using IR for vinyl emulation is a pretty stupid idea. It cannot not reproduce the rumble correctly. Not only each place of a vinyl is different, also each vinyl is different. To believe to capture such a universe with 12 samples is beyond naiv…

Perhaps ... but I like to disabuse myself of foolishness through evidence-based observation rather than relying on what some know-it-all clown on the Internet says. For the cost of a pint at the local I can now experiment. Who said anything about capturing the "universe" of vinyl besides you? I'm not setting out to master a simulated LP using these techniques, but rather *naively* anticipating learning more about the craft of sound design. A lot of this is psychoacoustic regardless.

My goal is to find what combination of tools at my disposal gives me "that vinyl sound" I desire. My hypothesis is that many small techniques, lightly layered, will yield the best result, as they often do with audio. I even went back and installed Vinyl, to re-acquaint myself with the aspects of it that I previously found limiting. Could be that in combination with iZotope Vinyl or plugins like airwindows ToVinyl and VinylDither, maybe an IR is just the right sound I'm trying for ... and in the process maybe I learn more about the limitations of convolution and vinyl simulation. Perhaps I am being naive and this will all be a waste of time and I'll wish I had spent that fiver on a pint, but I rather doubt it.

[FabienTDR]

Try SimuLathe

[kidslow]

I may land on SimuLathe REF eventually Fabien, but that's more the cost of a good night out than a pint.

[plexuss]

I may land on SimuLathe REF eventually Fabien, but that's more the cost of a good night out than a pint.

They dont care. Buy it because... you know... fanbois.

[VariKusBrainZ]

^
Dude, your anti crush is embarassing

[plexuss]

^
Dude, your anti crush is embarassing

Sorry, I am just getting tired of the whole audio software politics and corporate game playing. It's out of control. I'm an anti-fanboi. You're right though, I'll just shut up and get back to making music. Thanks for the reality-check.

[lightsfadelow]

I have used Needlepoint since it was in beta. I think it is a really good plugin which does a particular type of effect well if you get the hang of it. One thing I would recommend is not trying to find the "perfect" settings for a particular track. My experience is things like surface dust/pops don't always sound as randomized as I would like it in a given setting. What I would recommend is putting it on a track with some subtle settings and then printing that track with the effect. Then, take that printed track and run it again through Needlepoint with the settings changed. It makes things more mixed up than a single pass through that you try to make perfect. Just keep rinsing and repeating till satisfied.

Interesting idea. But couldn’t you achieve exactly the same outcome with 2 instances of the plugin on the track?

[lightsfadelow]

To close tings out, I did buy Needlepoint… and have vinyl as it’s free. And bought Lo-Fi-AF for good measure.

Something about the sound of the Needlepoint compression I really like.

[inaheartbeat]

I have used Needlepoint since it was in beta. I think it is a really good plugin which does a particular type of effect well if you get the hang of it. One thing I would recommend is not trying to find the "perfect" settings for a particular track. My experience is things like surface dust/pops don't always sound as randomized as I would like it in a given setting. What I would recommend is putting it on a track with some subtle settings and then printing that track with the effect. Then, take that printed track and run it again through Needlepoint with the settings changed. It makes things more mixed up than a single pass through that you try to make perfect. Just keep rinsing and repeating till satisfied.

Interesting idea. But couldn’t you achieve exactly the same outcome with 2 instances of the plugin on the track?

You could try that but if you have a modulation lane it is going to modulate both instances the same. Maybe that is fine and two instances is less work but I don't want the modulations to track each other since I want to make it more naturally random sounding.