Coding a better envelope for trance plucks, have I succeeded?

[El°HYM]

What is your opinion about the Casio CZ-5000 Cosmo Synthesizer?

I'm not familiar with that and I won't be familiar with most synths... I did make a blanket statement that all subtractive synths are problematic. Ok, that's not true. The paradigm of subtractive synths today are problematic, but some synths manage to do certain things well here and there, but unless it's all solved in one synth, I'm not interested in using it, and I'll only get so far with the music I want to make.

For example, Synapse Audio Dune3 is my favorite commercial subtractive synth because it does supersaws the best I've heard in any synth... except if you compare it to my supersaws.

Vember Audio Surge has decent filters, has almost all the bells and whistles, but it sucks at supersaws, it's your "do it all" subtractive synth that can do everything except what I need.

The kind of music I want to make is based in the 80s and 90s. So I don't need all the bells and whistles, I need an amazing filter and an amazing supersaw. And there are a lot of people who need it as well. Another goal with all this is to go deeper into what the 80s and 90s invented musically. There's deeper more powerful stuff to be uncovered in those genres and paradigms.

For example, take Blade Runner and its classic sawtooth lead with stringy pads.

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https://youtu.be/-fu7jN2_2pE?t=210

That can be expanded to HUGE and INTENSE supersaw ensembles that will compete with or complement hollywood's most epic string section. Fast forward to modern Bladerunner

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https://youtu.be/d3clrkLNTSA?t=142

and you start to hear a desire for bigger sounds.

Let's go to the 90s paradigm.

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https://youtu.be/2UaicKgrrgo?t=36

Need for Speed 3 music boils down the 90s aesthetic really well. It's full of screaming filters. Now imagine if you had five more variations of that screaming filter. I don't know how this music is so well made, all I know is that it will be easier to make with the tools I've spent my life working on.

I am listening... as Bladerunner and Dune 3 now got me interested.

[] Peter:H []

Hm, I think punch is a combination of different factors from composition, sound design, mixing and mastering. In following I give some examples which I have in mind ... there might be other techniques/examples as well.

Composition: I'm thinking of some edm tracks which are reduced to the max, drums + punchy "bass" sounds. The bass sounds can be punchy because nothing else is in their way. It allows to make these sounds really loud.

Sound design: theres techniques to add a very short attack sound layer to a sound, like for instance a very short sine pitch sweep, or an attack sample like in kick2. You can even think about increasing attack time on other sounds to get them out of the way.

Mixing: Compressors, Limiters, Transient-Shapers are your friends. Melda-Production since ages offers for instance a mode where you can treat attack phase and sustain phase differently.
You can even apply volume automation: before your punchy sound reduce the volume. This will give the punchy sound bigger contrast

Mastering: Tools same as for mixing ... but can only correct nuances ... if all other diciplines "suck" you cannot fix it in mastering.

However ... don't let this distract you, may be your plugin should already come with some of the tools I mentioned. Nevertheless composition plays a role as well, which no synth plugin can compensate.

If you like - taking part in One Synth Challenge is a great exercise in all these disciplines... and funny enough "punch" was the topic for my last contribution ... it was all done with Octasine, a 4-OP FM-Synth *without* any Filter https://on.soundcloud.com/zDkMi

[Rivertropic]

This is the most interesting thread I've come across in a long time.

You've opened a GIGANTIC GATE with envelopes in subtractive synthesis, I'm in love with DUNE3 too and already complained about its envelopes in the past in the Synapse forum.

I entrenched myself in FM synthesis as DX7 envelopes are the prism, and it feels strange to me that most subtractive synths does not feature an hold option as in virus C or Surge XT for example, as this allows approaching trance plucks the way you want.

There is a dramatic connecting wire between the Prophet 5 MkII envelopes and modern synths that I can only find in losing my mind with Fm synthesis. I bought your radar generator in the past and was knowing for sure that you were dedicated to this struggle using it.

This is some kind of an infinite Stream of Consciousness and I never stop thinking about envelopes in my life, thank you Architeuthis for being a dedicated and distinguished scholar on that matter.

Everything is wrong in some way with subtractive synthesis for sure.

here are some notes I hope will enlighten and permit us to move forward in this topic:

-Depeche Mode
-Rhythm & Sound
-1994 Trance
-Nintendo Gamecube
-Dolphins
-Dave Rossum
-Virtual Palmide

Thank you.

[Rivertropic]

+=+

[Architeuthis]

-Dave Rossum

watching

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwk_VS17QYw

now. I'm awake and working hard to release the pluck envelope prototype. It's sounding really good with Robin Schmidt's ladder filter. Should be done later today.

[Architeuthis]

soundemote - pluck envelope resonant filter (mp3)

using sabrina reverb

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Just curious: have you ever considered trying to work in Reaktor or a similar environment? I'm just thinking if GUI coding is where there's currently a gap in your skillset, maybe Reaktor or one of those Synthmaker type applications might be a good idea.

[Architeuthis]

Sometimes my code is too specific for something like Reaktor, or it would just take too much time, or way more confusing. I'm confused most of the time as it is... I do like Reaktor for prototyping my filters. Not to worry, I will get to UI one way or another.

[Architeuthis]

done: SoEmPluckEnvelope v1.3 (dll) [Windows only]

[Architeuthis]

oops, I shipped the plugin with left channel being the oscillator output, right channel is envelope output. Will update tomorrow with waveform morphing, forgot to add that.

Edit: uploaded version 1.1

[fidox]

But surely this is what a synths envelope and filter controls are for?

For example, I remember when I had a JP8080, the envelopes were really hard and with the attack at zero you get a lot of clicks.

I owned Roland jp8080 long time ago and yes, I remember clicks when attack was at zero

[Architeuthis]

For example, I remember when I had a JP8080, the envelopes were really hard and with the attack at zero you get a lot of clicks.

Clicks are a necessary part of the sound. Your problem is consistency rather than clicks. There are tricks to getting a consistent click with non-resetting oscillators. I plan on implementing said tricks in my final synths. If you use a resetting oscillator then clicks are consistent and sound good every time. You just lose a bit of variation.

[Architeuthis]

plugin updated to 1.3

- added an optional panning effect
- only one copy of a given midi note can play at any time (so it retriggers its same note if you play it while it's releasing)
- pitch slider easier to dial in small detune amount
- CC1 now controls envelope damping (used to be called envelope frequency)

new audio demo: minecraft style synthwave (mp3) (using two instances planned left and right and detuned)

[Eirikur]

I am hugely impressed by your sound demos. You remind me of Larry Fast getting annoyed by not being able to get good percussion attacks and creating his own envelope generator using a reed relay for instant attack. You're in better territory because it's not just what we think of as the attack.

[Eirikur]

You say you need pluck, brass, and reed "envelope modules." How about this: One "Complex Envelope" module, scriptable. I think of what you are doing as being similar to a physical model, and it might be much easier for you or users to tweak it via parameters instead of you having to rewrite it. Also, let's get all the good out of your effort by allowing it to do everything it can, including sounding bad.