(solved) - I am mediocre at mixing/mastering, what is my best friend, Izotope or Fabfilter?

[Jac459]

Hi, I am sorry to ask a question that has been already covered in the past but I would like to add a very specific angle to it that I think has not been discussed yet.

So basically, I have Ozone 10 and Neutron 4 as well as RX 10 from a pack and I really really like them.
I like the fact that the limiter has a lot of automations. I like that fact that the AI help me start.
That being said, I am often finishing by changing a lots of stuffs based on my hears and the awesome help from Isotope Tonal Balance Control 2 that I use a lot... So I feel at the end the AI doesn't help me much. What is helping me a lot is all the visual response on top of what I am hearing... At the end I trust more my hears of course but the visual help me understand the impact of what I am doing.

Which bring me to my question. I have a lot of creative fabfilter plugins, as well as Pro Q3 and I love them. Beyond everything, it is the visual response that I like very much and I believe this brand is number one on this aspect.

So do you think that Fabfilter Pro C2 or L2 or multilband compressor could help by their enhanced visual feedback or feature helps to make better choices ???

My question is not at all about the sound quality of these 2 brands because I think they are far good enough for my mixing mastering skills, ... I am the weak point...


I see there is a discount now on fabfilter and I could have these plugins for less than 80 euros each...


Edit after marking this thread as solved: Through the various helpful feedbacks of the community, I realised my pb was not my mastering tools but more my monitoring (based on headphones). So I worked on that as well as some useful tutorials/books references.

[vitocorleone123]

Wait for another sale by mixing with Mike and gain knowledge and then use your DAW plugins.

[ralfrobert]

Wait for another sale by mixing with Mike and gain knowledge and then use your DAW plugins.

+1

Check Mike's videos on YouTube to see if you like his style. The courses are great. You can also contact him and see if he gives you a special deal. Money well spent.

As for the stock plugins, I second that. Which DAW are you using?

And if you still want to buy a shiny Fabfilter plugin, you can't go wrong with Pro-EQ. For me, design is very important, and working with audio got a lot smoother after I picked it up. These plugins are expensive as hell, but if you spend 4 hours with an EQ, it matters if this is quality time or not. At least to me. And reselling FF is easy if wanted or necessary.

Just remember they have 30 days of unrestricted demo. Use them wisely.

As for iZotope... CPU hogs, quite convoluted, very powerful, outcome oriented tools like Stabilizer. I decided against it because of the CPU load. But demo them, too while you are at it.

[Uncle E]

So basically, I have Ozone 10 and Neutron 4 as well as RX 10 from a pack and I really really like them.
I like the fact that the limiter has a lot of automations. I like that fact that the AI help me start.
That being said, I am often finishing by changing a lots of stuffs based on my hears and the awesome help from Isotope Tonal Balance Control 2 that I use a lot... So I feel at the end the AI doesn't help me much.

I was on iZotope's beta team when the AI stuff was first being developed. Earlier versions were much more heavy-handed and did a good job of putting me exactly where I wanted to get to. Apparently, other beta testers believed it went too far because the settings got more subtle as the project developed. You can still get to the same place, now you just need to push the settings harder yourself. Pull down the thresholds on the compressors and limiters, and increase the boosts/cuts on the EQ bands, that will be enough to get great results from iZotope's AI. The cool thing is it still does the same great job of setting attack/release and frequency bands as those early versions.

Fabfilter is awesome (obviously) but I'm surprised you wouldn't choose the Sonible smart:bundle over them given your specific needs.

[Jac459]

Thanks for all these feedbacks. I didn't know mixing with Mike actually and will have a look.
Technically, I am not bad though and i know most of the techniques.
I think i am lacking on listening skills...

Also, I do have pro q3. I use it for a few things but for side chaining i prefere default bitwig plugins (I use and love bitwig). Using EQ+ with audio sidechaining is exactly what i like, you see exactly the frequencies you are unmasking.
Exactly what is needed for my unperfect hears....

[Jac459]

As for the stock plugins, I second that. Which DAW are you using?

And if you still want to buy a shiny Fabfilter plugin, you can't go wrong with Pro-EQ.

Hey mate, I am using bitwig and I use a lot of their tools (I am a big fan of bitwig).
In particular I love their audio sidechain modulator with EQ+, very awesome.
I do have pro q3 also and like it. But very often, if I want to change some tonal structure, I love to use fabfilter Saturn 2 to subtly saturate some frequencies and had harmonics.

[Jac459]

I was on iZotope's beta team when the AI stuff was first being developed. Earlier versions were much more heavy-handed and did a good job of putting me exactly where I wanted to get to. Apparently, other beta testers believed it went too far because the settings got more subtle as the project developed. You can still get to the same place, now you just need to push the settings harder yourself. Pull down the thresholds on the compressors and limiters, and increase the boosts/cuts on the EQ bands, that will be enough to get great results from iZotope's AI. The cool thing is it still does the same great job of setting attack/release and frequency bands as those early versions.

Fabfilter is awesome (obviously) but I'm surprised you wouldn't choose the Sonible smart:bundle over them given your specific needs.

Thanks mate, I am generally going the opposite direction by reducing what the AI is doing but I will try what you said and be bolder on the AI. See if it brings me somewhere I like.

The reason why I am not looking at sonible is that I have a very good discount by fabfilter (>50%).

[Jac459]

Wait for another sale by mixing with Mike and gain knowledge and then use your DAW plugins.

I am not really lacking knowledge, generally, I know the techniques presented, I feel it is more my ears...
As a kid, learning music i was not good at recognising pitches and stuff. And now it is a bit the same for me. I fail to really ear when it is too subtle.

I will still give a go to Mike. Maybe he is also teaching how to train your ear...

[Winstontaneous]

Before anything else I'd highly recommend getting Mike Senior's "Mixing Secrets" book and working your way through it. Same with Bob Katz' "Mastering Digital Audio". Very much focused on developing your listening skills so that when you're twiddling knobs you're doing it consciously for a reason.

[Jac459]

Before anything else I'd highly recommend getting Mike Senior's "Mixing Secrets" book and working your way through it. Same with Bob Katz' "Mastering Digital Audio". Very much focused on developing your listening skills so that when you're twiddling knobs you're doing it consciously for a reason.

Sounds very good, i will read the offered 100 pages and probably purchase the book...

So decision is taken, no more fabfilter for today

[ralfrobert]

Hearing comes with practice. And when it comes to intervals, rhythms etc, there are great training apps around, some free, some on the cheap side. You could integrate this in your daily routine. What do you think?

[Samiver]

I would also recommend Mike seniors book.

Can I ask what your studio/listening environment is? I say this as my mixing/mastering is still not great but I have to mix in headphones and getting something like realphones helped me a lot. I found my masters were better and translated better on other systems.

Not saying you mix on headphones but wondered if your monitoring could be affecting your mixing and mastering.

As for the Fabfilter stuff I use it a lot. Pro q3 especially sidechained to other instruments to see clashing frequencies for dynamic ducking, saturn 2 is great for dialling in on certain frequencies, pro mb I use a lot especially on the low end.

[bbvv]

I'm studying music production at the moment (just finished sound design term, now about to start mixing) and the general advice is: Fabfilter excellent, but your stock ones are probably enough. I have Mike Senior's book too, it's really good.

I did have the iZotope suite but I've been selling them off, mainly because nobody on my course uses them (so for knowledge sharing it's not so good) and I just don't like the aesthetics of the GUI. For a newbie like me, the FF ones are so clear, colourful, welcoming - I'm a visual thinker and they work well for me.

If you are looking to train your ear, have you tried the Sound on Sound podcasts? Sometimes Mike is on there too. They give examples.

[Jac459]

Hearing comes with practice. And when it comes to intervals, rhythms etc, there are great training apps around, some free, some on the cheap side. You could integrate this in your daily routine. What do you think?

Definitely! I fully agree with that and I am certainly not doing enough. But to be fair during my young time I did 12 years of music theory and 10 years of guitar in a very serious school... So I am far from a beginner... (but also far from the level I which I had)... I really think some people have gifts on that and other people don't... Unfortunately I am (quite) talented for mathematics but passionated by music haha...

[Jac459]

I would also recommend Mike seniors book.

Can I ask what your studio/listening environment is? I say this as my mixing/mastering is still not great but I have to mix in headphones and getting something like realphones helped me a lot. I found my masters were better and translated better on other systems.

Not saying you mix on headphones but wondered if your monitoring could be affecting your mixing and mastering.

As for the Fabfilter stuff I use it a lot. Pro q3 especially sidechained to other instruments to see clashing frequencies for dynamic ducking, saturn 2 is great for dialling in on certain frequencies, pro mb I use a lot especially on the low end.

You touch a very good point actually. I do mix and master on headphone too. I have a Focal Elegia linked to a Astel&Kern DAC.
I am actually quite curious about something like realphones. I was quite impressed by the review on VSX, not sure if you read about it and what you think about it...
Unfortunately realphones doesn't support the Elegia... It support cheaper and more expansive focal but not these ones...

For Pro Q3, I like it a lot definitely, but then Bitwig is just unbeatable for side chaining. On top of clashing frequencies, you also really have a control on the attack and release of the side chaining, it is really surgical... I still use Pro Q3 but not for this part...

I don't have Pro MB, what do you use it for (obviously multi band compression, but more specifically) ?

Thanks.