KVR Audio

dentaku · Post by **dentaku** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 3:20 pm

I built a nice new desktop system with a 13700K, 32gb if DRR5 5600, Asus Tuf Gaming Z790 Plus WiFi, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (motherboard audio off in BIOS)
It's fast but it has problems with Ableton Live 11.2.
To get it to run smoothly I have to open live as administrator.
It's much better if I set my Power Optons settings to Balanced but it's horrible set to High if I'm not running Live as Admin. I certainly can't use other software while Live is playing. Scrolling through a web page in a browser makes it glitch and stutter horribly. My CPU usage doesn't seem to spike at this point either.
This doesn't happen in Win 10 but I want to use Win 11 because 10 has no clue how to make use of all 24 logical processors. It runs Live 11 on one or sometimes 2 P-cores and ignores all the others.
As administrator I ran a test project with 18 Pigments playing the same loop at different starting points, two Analog Labs and one built in Live instrument and CPU usage rarely goes over 24% and I can scroll through web pages without glitches. As a regular user...NOT as administrator, it's horrible.

I see that scan.co.uk sells an almost identical system and I'm assuming people use Live 11 successfully on those computers.

Why would running Live as admin make such a difference?

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 8:48 pm

I have also came across reduced performance in last versions of 11, this might be a bug related to admin permits. Send your information to Ableton Support pls.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:07 pm

Live 11.3.3 is available. Maybe try updating?

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:13 pm

wrong thread!

legendCNCD · Post by **legendCNCD** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 12:04 pm

Still on live10, it chokes on both platforms - badly - when you have a lot of wave tracks on the screen.
I think on 11, the .3 should fix the bug?

You have almost the same build I*ve been eyeing, Win11, i7-13700K (,RME) but I am still going to run latest Live 10.

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 8:12 pm

dentaku wrote: Wed Jun 28, 2023 3:20 pm I built a nice new desktop system with a 13700K, 32gb if DRR5 5600, Asus Tuf Gaming Z790 Plus WiFi, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (motherboard audio off in BIOS)
It's fast but it has problems with Ableton Live 11.2.
To get it to run smoothly I have to open live as administrator.
It's much better if I set my Power Optons settings to Balanced but it's horrible set to High if I'm not running Live as Admin. I certainly can't use other software while Live is playing. Scrolling through a web page in a browser makes it glitch and stutter horribly. My CPU usage doesn't seem to spike at this point either.
This doesn't happen in Win 10 but I want to use Win 11 because 10 has no clue how to make use of all 24 logical processors. It runs Live 11 on one or sometimes 2 P-cores and ignores all the others.
As administrator I ran a test project with 18 Pigments playing the same loop at different starting points, two Analog Labs and one built in Live instrument and CPU usage rarely goes over 24% and I can scroll through web pages without glitches. As a regular user...NOT as administrator, it's horrible.

I see that scan.co.uk sells an almost identical system and I'm assuming people use Live 11 successfully on those computers.

Why would running Live as admin make such a difference?

I can confirm the difference between running Live as admin vs not admin, specially while changing windows. I will report to support this at it seems like a bug.

But I wonder if there are more differences to this performance bug.

dentaku · Post by **dentaku** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 9:14 pm

rod_zero wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2023 8:12 pm I can confirm the difference between running Live as admin vs not admin, specially while changing windows. I will report to support this at it seems like a bug.

But I wonder if there are more differences to this performance bug.

I tried it with older versions of Live 11 and it was the same.
I've looked and the changelog for 11.3 but there doesn't seem to be anything pertaining to this or any performance issues. Its mostly UI changes and support for new hardware.
The strange thing is that it's much worse with the Power settings on High instead of Balanced.

If Win10 knew how to use this 13700K correctly I would just use that but that's not the case.

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 9:30 pm

There were performance issues in 11.3.2 because of reanalyzing wav files with the new warping algorithm, but that is totally unrelated to this

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:16 am

Sorry wrong button!

dentaku · Post by **dentaku** » Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:51 am

rod_zero wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2023 9:30 pm There were performance issues in 11.3.2 because of reanalyzing wav files with the new warping algorithm, but that is totally unrelated to this

Yup, I'm just using virtual instruments and not any audio files at all so warp shouldn't be an issue.
I just did a few more tests and even with my Ethernet unplugged if I open Firefox or Edge it will start stuttering. Once I close the browser it seems normal.

I'm still trying to figure why running Live as admin seems to fix this.

I just figured out why Windows Performance Monitor wasn't showing speeds closer to 5.3GHz anymore while a project is running but then realized it's because once all the cores are being used, it shows you the Average speed of all 16 logical P-cores and the 8 slower E-cores which ends up being a bit over 4.75GHz.
If I run a reasonably sized project it uses only the P-cores and stays at around 5.3GHz.

I've still got some more experimenting to do.
I even installed (out of desperation) that horrible Asus Armory Crate because it has one nice feature in that it checks all your motherboard drivers and shows you what the newest version is.
I think I'm going to do a fresh OS install and see if I can install the drivers myself to avoid all the Asus bloatware even though it wasn't any better before I installed Armory Crate.
I might as well turn off the Bluetooth and WiFi from the BIOS first too to have less peripherals and less drivers loaded.

syntonica · Post by **syntonica** » Fri Jun 30, 2023 7:16 am

Possibly, running as admin avoids a number of costly permissions checks that a regular user is subject to.

That's all I got, and I'm probably wrong...

Jim Roseberry · Post by **Jim Roseberry** » Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:23 am

If you're running a 13th Gen CPU, you need to be running Windows 11... because Microsoft has broken the ability to disable CPU Core Parking in later versions of Windows 10.
That kills performance... and especially at lowest latency settings.

FWIW, You don't want to be running a "balanced" power profile (for DAW purposes).

osiris · Post by **osiris** » Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:13 pm

Maybe it's a read/write files permission thing?

Goony · Post by **Goony** » Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:38 pm

CPU throttling due to High performance setting, ensure you have use CPU 100% within power settings etc.

dentaku · Post by **dentaku** » Sat Jul 01, 2023 1:44 am

Goony wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:38 pm CPU throttling due to High performance setting, ensure you have use CPU 100% within power settings etc.

I've tried all combinations of power settings.
I've always used min and max set to 100% on other computers but for some reason I can only use a browser without audio glitches while Live 11 is playing if I run Live as admin. As admin I can even play YouTube videos without Live glitching but as non-admin I can't set min and max to 100%.
I seem to remember that using something more like the balanced setting it's better which is strange.
This does show that the glitches aren't because the CPU is being overwhelmed.
A 13700K is fast.

13700k and Ableton 11, why it works better run as Admin?