Not having done extensive research yet, is there a great synthesizer in a smaller/desktop format, price doesnt matter as long is its reasonable for the features, that does more esotheric, digital synthesis methods like additive synthesis, granular, physical m., maybe some form of FM etc... (not looking to build a modular)
im thinking of something like Monomaschine, but maybe a bit more modern. doesnt have to have a sequencer necessarily, but something like the Monomaschine in spirit: something kind of weird, not just a flavor of subtractive synth (not to knock these kind of synths tho)
context is, im mostly producing with ableton/use softsynths but I have a small no DAW-setup corner that i like sometimes to get away from my computer, just to sketch ideas , i currently have an octatrack and the mono but looking to replace the latter.
Desktop synth that does more esotheric/digital synthesis
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- KVRist
- 410 posts since 13 Oct, 2015
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- KVRAF
- 8735 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand
Can't think of too many that fit the bill for that. Waldorf springs to mind - Iridium does granular, not sure about FM etc, and Waldorf make quite a few desktop models. Not cheap though...
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- KVRAF
- 37526 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
Arturia Microfreak/Minifreak has many esoteric sound generators, most from Mutable Instruments Plaits plus some additional ones from Noise Engineering. Doesn’t have granular though but has everything else you mentioned and a lot more
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- KVRAF
- 37526 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
Oh yes forgot that - hope they come to Minifreak toobradkvr wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 8:59 pm The latest firmware update for the Microfreak added 3 granular engines. Not as full featured as most granular plugins, but hey you've only got three knobs to play with.
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- KVRAF
- 12250 posts since 7 Sep, 2006 from Roseville, CA
Have you checked out the 1010 Music boxes, like Lemondrop (granular) or Fireball (wavetable)?
https://1010music.com/product-category/desktop
https://1010music.com/product-category/desktop
Logic Pro | LUNA Pro | OB-X8 | Prophet 6 | OB-6 | Rev2 | TEO-5 | Pro 3 | SE-1X | Minitaur | Deepmind 12D | Slim Phatty | TR-1000 | Analog RYTM mk2 | Digitakt 2 | TD-3 MO | TD-3 | Maschine+
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- KVRist
- 296 posts since 8 Mar, 2003 from Boston, MA
Have you considered an in between option? So maybe a simpler synth and a pedal. I’m thinking a MicroFreak + Hologram Microcosm or Eventide H90. As far as a single desktop synth, Waldorf Iridium Desktop probably the closest thing to an all in one
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- KVRian
- 1098 posts since 21 Apr, 2004
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 410 posts since 13 Oct, 2015
microfreak seems really cool actually, i was discrediting it a bit! i might check that one out.
waldorf iridium I also looked at, but Im a bit concerned about it just being too much like a really good VST, being pretty bulky+ screen heavy
waldorf iridium I also looked at, but Im a bit concerned about it just being too much like a really good VST, being pretty bulky+ screen heavy
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- KVRAF
- 8735 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand
Well, every digital hw synth is very much like a really good VST. Same digital synthesis method, just in a box. What you're paying for is the knobs and the box. Off the top of my head I can't think of any hw digital synth that doesn't have some sort of VST equivalent. The reason to buy hw is completely different, such as hands-on control, portability, workflow, keys etc. I don't have any digital hw synths that I can't replicate with some VST or other, but that's not why I bought them. If you're worried about stuff like that, you might be better advised to relook at the reasons you want to buy a hw synth, because you're in danger of becoming Bones (though likely a far less prickly one 
)
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The Black Parade The Black Parade https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=676064
- Banned
- 27 posts since 29 Sep, 2023
Well, the Minifreak is literally just a plugin in a minikeys enclosure that is only 6 voice polyphonic. Arturia offer the Microfreak V plugin that is 100% compatible with the hardware. You can even link the two to use the hardware to control the plugin.worldfever wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 12:04 pm microfreak seems really cool actually, i was discrediting it a bit! i might check that one out.
waldorf iridium I also looked at, but Im a bit concerned about it just being too much like a really good VST, being pretty bulky+ screen heavy
Even though the Minifreak keyboard has a nice sounding SEM-inspired polyphonic analog filter, Arturia have done an amazing job modeling this filter for the plugin. It's really hard to tell the difference between the analog and digital filters. And I'm a total snob when it comes to analog filters which, IMO, almost always sound better (if often more limited with fewer filter types and slopes) than their digital counterparts.
You can argue (convincingly) that any fully digital synthesizer these days is just a "VST in a box." That applies to the Iridium. But the Iridium was almost explicitly designed for your use case. I can't think of any other hardware synth that has all the fully featured synthesis engines you have specified that comes in a desktop format. The Waldorf Quantum adds analog filters to the mix but it's offered as a keyboard only.
The new $3,500 Groove Synthesis 3rd Wave desktop is a more faithful PPG-inspired wavetable synth than the Iridium, includes an excellent VA engine, does Linear FM, features both analog and digital filters (with saturation and optional resonance compensation,) and is 24 voice (!) polyphonic. I personally would get the 3rd Wave over an Iridium. But the 3rd Wave doesn't do granular synthesis (at least not yet). So that may rule it out for you.
The only other things I can think of that come close to doing everything you want are the UVI Falcon and Steinberg HALion 7 software samplers/synthesizers. For the price of a 3rd Wave desktop, you could buy both of these AND an M2 MacBook Air to run them. But if you really want a desktop synth, I think the Iridium and the 3rd Wave are really your only two options.
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The Black Parade The Black Parade https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=676064
- Banned
- 27 posts since 29 Sep, 2023
Here are the specs for the 3rd Wave keyboard. Unfortunately, the desktop specs are not available yet on the Groove Synthesis website. But both versions of the synth are supposed to be essentially the same except for fewer controls on the desktop version. As you can see from this extensive feature list, the 3rd Wave is an absolute beast of a synth that makes the Minifreak seem more like a toy. Then again, the Minifreak is only $600 while the 3rd Wave desktop is $3,500 and the keyboard is $5,000. That's a HUGE difference in price!
3rd Wave Specs:
SYNTHESIS ENGINE
3 High-resolution Digital Oscillators Per Voice
64 total user wavetable positions with 48 wavetables that contain 64 waveforms per table (32 legacy PPG waves with room for another 16 of this type)
32 original 8 bit wavetables from the PPG 2 series instruments with room for 16 more user created 8 bit wavetables
7 high-resolution modeled analog waveforms (sine, saw, triangle, supersaw, pulse, white noise, pink noise)
VCO sync
Linear FM
6-stage wave envelope per oscillator with variable time and position that can be looped
Optional wave flow section that allows for no wavetable as well as no waveform interpolation
Upper wavetable mode as with the original PPG 2 series
Unison mode and chord mode with variable voice count
1 Analog Low-pass Filter
Dave Rossum designed, classic, 2140 low-pass resonant filter
24 db per octave slope
variable saturation amount
optional resonance compensation
1 State-Variable Filter
12 db per octave slope
Continuously variable between low-pass, notch, and high-pass, operation with optional band-pass mode
4 ADSR+ Delay Envelopes
Filter, Amplifier, plus 2 additional envelopes switchable between exponential and vintage PPG-style response
Freely assignable to multiple modulation destinations
4 Low-Frequency Oscillators
Triangle, sawtooth, reverse sawtooth, square, pulse 1, pulse 2, pulse 3, and random (S&H)
Variable delay
Note reset
Syncable to master clock BPM
EFFECTS
2 Digital Effects per part
BBD, stereo delay, tape delay, chorus, phaser, flanger, distortion pedal, rotating speaker, ring mod, room reverb, hall reverb, super plate reverb – most modeled on famous hardware devices
Syncable to master clock BPM
Parameters modulatable via mod matrix
WAVEMAKER TOOL
Built-In Custom Wavetable Maker
“Sample-to-wave” functionality. Connect an audio source to the 3rd Wave’s Audio In port, press “Make Waves” and the synth samples the audio to create a custom wavetable
Samples to convert can also be brought in as a 96 kHz wav file through USB
Store up to 32 custom wavetables
64 waveforms per wavetable
Accepts pitched or un-pitched material as input
96 kHz sampling rate
16-bit resolution
1024 cycles per waveform, converted automatically to cover entire keyboard range
Flexible wave-sampling length
Imports Serum™ wavetables
SEQUENCER
Performs both Note and Parameter Sequencing
4 parts per sequence
24 sequences per preset
Up to 32 measures per sequence
Variable quantization resolution per sequence (32nd, 16th, 8th, quarter, half, whole note, or quantization off), that is settable in real time
Variable swing
ARPEGGIATOR
1 Arp per Multi-part
Up, down, up/down, and assign modes
Variable range (1, 2, or 3 octaves)
MOD MATRIX
16-slot Modulation Matrix Per Multi-Part
16 slot modulation matrix with 27 mod sources and 114 mod destinations
12 additional fixed-source mod paths
Modulation assignment buttons enable quick and easy modulation routing
Mod Matrix runs at audio rates
Sequencer can record and play mod parameter changes in real time
PROGRAMS
500 factory programs. User rewritable
IN/OUT
4 Stereo outputs (2x 1/4″ phone jack per part)
Headphone out (stereo 1/4″ phone jack)
MIDI In, MIDI Out, and MIDI Thru
USB port for bidirectional MIDI communication
Audio Input for creating user wavetables from external audio source (1/4″ phone jack)
Audio Input can also route audio through the filters, output chain, and effects
Sustain/footswitch input
Volume pedal input
Expression pedal input
3rd Wave Specs:
SYNTHESIS ENGINE
3 High-resolution Digital Oscillators Per Voice
64 total user wavetable positions with 48 wavetables that contain 64 waveforms per table (32 legacy PPG waves with room for another 16 of this type)
32 original 8 bit wavetables from the PPG 2 series instruments with room for 16 more user created 8 bit wavetables
7 high-resolution modeled analog waveforms (sine, saw, triangle, supersaw, pulse, white noise, pink noise)
VCO sync
Linear FM
6-stage wave envelope per oscillator with variable time and position that can be looped
Optional wave flow section that allows for no wavetable as well as no waveform interpolation
Upper wavetable mode as with the original PPG 2 series
Unison mode and chord mode with variable voice count
1 Analog Low-pass Filter
Dave Rossum designed, classic, 2140 low-pass resonant filter
24 db per octave slope
variable saturation amount
optional resonance compensation
1 State-Variable Filter
12 db per octave slope
Continuously variable between low-pass, notch, and high-pass, operation with optional band-pass mode
4 ADSR+ Delay Envelopes
Filter, Amplifier, plus 2 additional envelopes switchable between exponential and vintage PPG-style response
Freely assignable to multiple modulation destinations
4 Low-Frequency Oscillators
Triangle, sawtooth, reverse sawtooth, square, pulse 1, pulse 2, pulse 3, and random (S&H)
Variable delay
Note reset
Syncable to master clock BPM
EFFECTS
2 Digital Effects per part
BBD, stereo delay, tape delay, chorus, phaser, flanger, distortion pedal, rotating speaker, ring mod, room reverb, hall reverb, super plate reverb – most modeled on famous hardware devices
Syncable to master clock BPM
Parameters modulatable via mod matrix
WAVEMAKER TOOL
Built-In Custom Wavetable Maker
“Sample-to-wave” functionality. Connect an audio source to the 3rd Wave’s Audio In port, press “Make Waves” and the synth samples the audio to create a custom wavetable
Samples to convert can also be brought in as a 96 kHz wav file through USB
Store up to 32 custom wavetables
64 waveforms per wavetable
Accepts pitched or un-pitched material as input
96 kHz sampling rate
16-bit resolution
1024 cycles per waveform, converted automatically to cover entire keyboard range
Flexible wave-sampling length
Imports Serum™ wavetables
SEQUENCER
Performs both Note and Parameter Sequencing
4 parts per sequence
24 sequences per preset
Up to 32 measures per sequence
Variable quantization resolution per sequence (32nd, 16th, 8th, quarter, half, whole note, or quantization off), that is settable in real time
Variable swing
ARPEGGIATOR
1 Arp per Multi-part
Up, down, up/down, and assign modes
Variable range (1, 2, or 3 octaves)
MOD MATRIX
16-slot Modulation Matrix Per Multi-Part
16 slot modulation matrix with 27 mod sources and 114 mod destinations
12 additional fixed-source mod paths
Modulation assignment buttons enable quick and easy modulation routing
Mod Matrix runs at audio rates
Sequencer can record and play mod parameter changes in real time
PROGRAMS
500 factory programs. User rewritable
IN/OUT
4 Stereo outputs (2x 1/4″ phone jack per part)
Headphone out (stereo 1/4″ phone jack)
MIDI In, MIDI Out, and MIDI Thru
USB port for bidirectional MIDI communication
Audio Input for creating user wavetables from external audio source (1/4″ phone jack)
Audio Input can also route audio through the filters, output chain, and effects
Sustain/footswitch input
Volume pedal input
Expression pedal input
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- KVRAF
- 20922 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California
Minilogue XD Module
Sonicware Liven Texture Lab
Sonicware Liven XFM
If you can find the original Sonicware ELZ_1, that pretty much does it all but I think it’s discontinued.
Sonicware Liven Texture Lab
Sonicware Liven XFM
If you can find the original Sonicware ELZ_1, that pretty much does it all but I think it’s discontinued.
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The Black Parade The Black Parade https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=676064
- Banned
- 27 posts since 29 Sep, 2023
If you want a hardware synth for creating experimental/esoteric digital sounds, you really can't go wrong with a DSI Evolver (either the mono desktop, Mono Evolver Keyboard, Poly Evolver Keyboard, or Poly Evolver Rack).
The Evolver series doesn't do granular synthesis, only sort of does a very crude form of FM and ring mod, and perhaps most importantly is only 4-voice polyphonic for both of the "Poly" versions.
But Good Lord, if you want a mixture of gritty analog DCO oscillators that feature PWM and sync, low end stereo Curtis analog filters, and totally over the top digital mayhem, the Evolver is your synth. It's not "beautifully atmospheric" at all. It's full on, in-your-face aggressive with several types of the gnarliest digital distortion you'll ever hear.
It's an absolute classic. But obviously not to everyone's taste.
The Evolver series doesn't do granular synthesis, only sort of does a very crude form of FM and ring mod, and perhaps most importantly is only 4-voice polyphonic for both of the "Poly" versions.
But Good Lord, if you want a mixture of gritty analog DCO oscillators that feature PWM and sync, low end stereo Curtis analog filters, and totally over the top digital mayhem, the Evolver is your synth. It's not "beautifully atmospheric" at all. It's full on, in-your-face aggressive with several types of the gnarliest digital distortion you'll ever hear.
It's an absolute classic. But obviously not to everyone's taste.