Mixing (Bass?) with headphones?

[Benedict]

Seeing in both cases you quoted out of greater context...

Sigh

[_al_]

Seeing in both cases you quoted out of greater context...

Sigh

Dude... you have my apologies.
I guess I'm just too used to people trying to argue with me on here

[BONES]

Mixing bass on anything is a challenge. For me the trick is getting the balance between the kick and bass right. I’ll hit the mono button in Reaper and solo the kick and bass. I’ll mix the two until it’s right. Then I’ll add some parallel compression and eq to the bass.

I used to put a lot of this kind of effort in but I stopped doing it a couple of albums ago and my mixes have improved noticeably since. What I realised is that the kick is always going to dominate, it's why it is there, so there's no need to make room for it. Al I do now is choose a bass patch that works with the kick and then it's done. If it's a bass guitar, then it might get some EQ or a low-cut filter but if it's a synth, I'll tweak the patch if I need to, or choose something that works better. There is no one right sound for anything, so it makes sense to choose sounds because they work well together, rather than for any other reason.

Also... I think if your room is not properly treated, then relying on speakers for mixing sub is a very bad idea.

That's why we have nearfield monitoring, it makes the acoustics of your workspace irrelevant.

My room has a 6db+ peak at 90hz

That doesn't make sense, it's not how it works. You can say you have a +6dB peak exactly where you're sitting in the room but if you stand up or move your desk or your monitors, that value will change.

You should check out something like Realphones or Morphit (both good and cheap(ish) options)
I've been using Realphones for years now, and I really would not like to mix without it. Ever.

OTOH, I have literally never in my life made any adjustment to anything, in any mix I have worked on, as a result of listening to what I did with my monitors on headphones. The headphones will absolutely reveal details that you don't notice with your monitors but all it ever tells me is that it's all good. Mastering is a bit different but even there the differences are always minor and it's unlikely anyone would notice one way or the other.

Headphones are your best option for mixing bass on if your room is small, and not pristinely well treated for bass.

NEARFIELD MONITORING, FFS!!!

There are some pro producers/mixing engineers who mix in untreated room. It’s more important to know your room and their mixes are top notch. Don’t mix in a untreated room, don’t mix in headphones. Still some ignore all the don’ts and prove it is possible.

EXACTLY! I think far too many people put far too much effort into tings that don't matter. It's a corollary of the old saying "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". You think you need to do all this stuff because you don't really know what you're doing and you want to make sure you do the best job you can.

I think the best advice you can get is not to overthink things, that if something sounds good, then it is good so leave it alone. Learn by doing, don't think that just because someone has thousands of followers on YouTube that they know what they are talking about. People who know what they're doing are far too busy to have time for YT videos.

Mix the Midrange and the extremes will sort themselves.

This is also excellent advice. All you have to do is look at a spectrum analyser to see where all your sound is happening - it's all in the middle and it tails off at the extremes.

But I think you will have Psytrance producers reading this paragraph with a look of horror on their face

You're assuming they can read.

[_al_]

Oh ffs... and you are just what I need on a Monday morning

Also... I think if your room is not properly treated, then relying on speakers for mixing sub is a very bad idea.

That's why we have nearfield monitoring, it makes the acoustics of your workspace irrelevant.

I have 2 sets of nearfield monitors, and clearly the acoustics are not fking irrelevant, because the boom fills the only section of my studio flat that I can make music.
And that's without my subwoofer switched on.

My room has a 6db+ peak at 90hz

That doesn't make sense, it's not how it works. You can say you have a +6dB peak exactly where you're sitting in the room but if you stand up or move your desk or your monitors, that value will change.

I guess I didn't use exact wording, because Benedict sounded like he had more than half a brain.
But for the rest of you... "A +6db peak filling my working area"
And no, I'm not gonna move my setup to the middle of my room just to please you, as I have already dealt with it.

But I think you will have Psytrance producers reading this paragraph with a look of horror on their face

You're assuming they can read.

Actually, you are the one who is "assuming" here.
I know more Psy producers than anything else, and I can assure you, they are a lot more intelligent than you are appearing to be.

Now if you had said "techno producers" I might have let that go
(guys, don't start, fkn joke)

Seriously though Bones... you just stagger in from the pub or something?

[BONES]

I have 2 sets of nearfield monitors, and clearly the acoustics are not fking irrelevant, because the boom fills the only section of my studio flat that I can make music.

Just because you buy nearfield monitors, doesn't make your listening experience a nearfield experience. It doesn't matter what speakers you are using, you need to set up your studio for nearfield monitoring.

That said, even if there is an issue with your space, you are aware of it and you should be able to compensate for it without conscious effort. That's a huge advantage have as bedroom producers - we get to know our spaces so well that we can do great work in pretty average conditions, confident we'll get a good result every time.

And no, I'm not gonna move my setup to the middle of my room just to please you, as I have already dealt with it.

By spending a shit-ton of money, rather than spending a couple of minutes moving your desk. Does that not sound incredibly f**king stupid to you? Because to me it sounds both stupid and arrogant - cutting off your nose to spite your face, as my dear old Mum would have said.

Actually, you are the one who is "assuming" here.

Sense of humour bypass also common among these people? You'd fit right in.

Now if you had said "techno producers" I might have let that go
(guys, don't start, fkn joke)

Definitely by-passed.

Seriously though Bones... you just stagger in from the pub or something?

No, I was at work waiting for something to come in for me to do. I've noticed over the years that a lot of people don't seem to understand nearfield monitoring so it feels like a worthwhile discussion to pursue.

[Benedict]

Seeing in both cases you quoted out of greater context...

Sigh

Dude... you have my apologies.
I guess I'm just too used to people trying to argue with me on here

Thanks. I was replying broadly.

And my advice, don't be so snippy with Bones as while he is a forward kinda guy, he knows what he is doing from hard experience. Trust me when I say that us old guys were not trained with all the BS that people peddle online today as fact - ask yourself why that might be and get angry with them rather then people actually telling you something correct

I wonder what a) leads you to believe that you have that boost in your room and b) why altering your workspace is so impossible? As above, I see a lot of terrible advice about room setup that might as well be "use a RATT pedal on everything" for the usefulness of the outcomes you will suffer.

[kritikon]

OP states DT990pro. I use those and quite like them for various reasons, but they're quite obviously bass heavy. To such a degree I definitely don't use them for serious mixing. I can to some extent because I take into account how they translate to my studio and other speakers, but the bass weighting is very heavy. It's a pleasant bias but no way you can realistically hear what it's like in real life. But as with anything - you CAN mix in them as long as you know how to account for the boost, but I find the boost doesn't give any extra detail in the bass, just a warm comforting boominess. For most of the rest of the mix I find them OK - I can mix the mids/highs reasonably well in 990s. One thing I find with headphones is the level of FX is difficult to achieve, especially reverb. I tend to lower it in headphones and it ends up sounding too dry on almost all other speakers, and I've done it with all headphones I ever owned. I suspect it's because of the stereo emphasis thing you perceive in headphones, so wide stereo FX stand out? It's usually drastically wrong in my experience.

Ultimately, anyone can mix in any speakers/headphones they choose. Just need to know how they translate. Headphones will alter whatever source material you compare to, so you mix your own stuff according to whatever your source sounds like in your cans. Easy enough to do. You really don't have to have a megarich treated studio with megaspeakers - FFS people used to mix on NS10s - which are truly fuckin awful speakers.

[Digitt]

the most detailed bass ive ever come across in headphones is Ultrasone. In general, they are INCREDIBLE for listening for artifacts in your sound. They have a patented technology called S-Logic (look for it on youtube for an explanation) that points the sound to your outer ear so it captures sound naturally. it creates a proper stereo field that is so realistic, I often don't know if the sound is coming from my monitors or the headphones

they're not the most flat in the upper ranges, but their bass is incredibly detailed. I find it easier to hear details in my bass on them than on my monitors (yamaha hs80m).