Being teased into upgrades...

[jonljacobi]

As of Live 12 (beta), I'm starting to have an allergic reaction to the added features and functions being poured into Live. Actually, it's the implementation in the GUI, not the features themselves.

I understand that I'm not the only fish in the sea and that some of you greatly desire these things. This can be said for most DAW upgrades.

To be perfectly honest, there was no extremely compelling reason for me to upgrade from 10. I do record a lot, but my workflow doesn't need comping. A feature which was most unimaginatively implemented when there was already an ad hoc method that didn't result in a slew of lanes. I don't do MPE so that was of no appeal. I don't need a lot of hand-holding to edit or write in the piano roll, so why did !?

Because there's always a couple of things that do help me out. I.e., the Tease! The ability to hide the clip header, a new keyboard shortcut to arm the track, etc. Now I find myself in the 12 beta with a bunch of new features that I will never use, plus a couple I would. Tease!

But in 12's case, they're really starting to clutter things up. If you're pooh-poohing this as merely one user's gripe, remember that the more choices you're presented with, the longer it takes to scan them and choose the one you want.

I love Live, primarily because of its workflow, but also because of the clever and unique way they once engineered in features. Now, it seems the company has lost its creative edge, or the desire to be different as the implementations of recent features are boringly commonplace.

As an experiment, I've reinstalled Live 10 and had a go. I'm seriously considering going back, though this means abandoning or porting a lot of newer stuff, primarily presets I've created. Which brings me to another complaint. Live still lacks an easy way to export stems.

So I've rattled on about Live which is what I know best. Does this bug you with other DAWs? Upgrading to get one or two things that make your life easier while the rest are of no use, or worst case, get in your way? How do you feel about the increasing complexity of the DAW you use? Could you downgrade and still get the job done?

[chk071]

As of Live 12 (beta), I'm starting to have an allergic reaction to the added features and functions being poured into Live.

Welcome to 2024. It's the same in any DAW. The companies behind them need to keep the ball running, which means more features which justify paid upgrades. Which means more feature bloat and clutter.

[elxsound]

As of Live 12 (beta), I'm starting to have an allergic reaction to the added features and functions being poured into Live.

Welcome to 2024. It's the same in any DAW. The companies behind them need to keep the ball running, which means more features which justify paid upgrades. Which means more feature bloat and clutter.

This is what it is.

Non-stop, FL has this, S1 added this, BW added this, Live added this…

It non stop and if you read comments from social sites (YT, Insta, TT) you’ll see how another generation thinks a company is dead in the water until they add whatever new thing is there.


Now as someone deep in Live, for basic recording I think they’ve done a decent way to keep things streamlined and the browser changes sped up my workflow…
Until I get to the clip detail.
That’s changed drastically from 10 to 11 to 12. If you never touch clip detail it’s not bad, but some key things are not as easily found compared to 10 and earlier.
I don’t know what the solution is but collapsing panes with little differentiation outside of generative features doesn’t seem to be it.

Anyway good luck with this… but that’s the world we’re living in. Updates galore, or maybe it’s time to wall-off a computer as a finished idea and not worry about updates or upgrades.

[enCiphered]

Have you tried Reaper?

[jamcat]

As of Live 12 (beta), I'm starting to have an allergic reaction to the added features and functions being poured into Live.

Welcome to 2024. It's the same in any DAW. The companies behind them need to keep the ball running, which means more features which justify paid upgrades. Which means more feature bloat and clutter.

Not Studio One.

[chk071]

As of Live 12 (beta), I'm starting to have an allergic reaction to the added features and functions being poured into Live.

Welcome to 2024. It's the same in any DAW. The companies behind them need to keep the ball running, which means more features which justify paid upgrades. Which means more feature bloat and clutter.

Not Studio One.

Oh yes Studio One.

Not much better than Steinberg with their 1 year paid feature upgrade cycle.

Just good that it is younger in terms of development. You don't "feel" the feature bloat as much as you feel it with Cubase.

[jamcat]

Studio One gets a full version upgrade every 2 years about. And they don’t charge for .5 updates.

But so far, nothing PreSonus has added has been bloat.

I’m hoping to see an automation refresh, with part containers for automation data, and the ability to easily reassign automation parts to different parameters or tracks.

[chk071]

Studio One gets a full version upgrade every 2 years about.

Well, exactly. And a shed load of features to sell you those upgrades.

Let's be honest: Every feature they implement has to reside somewhere in the software. Because they don't get rid of redundant or old features at the same time. At least in the majority of cases.

The only reason why Studio One doesn't feel that bloated yet is because it doesn't have as many features as some of the competition (e.g. Cubase). I'm sure they'll get there though, if they go on like this.

[Dalle]

No, I like new features and Live 12 doesn’t feel any more cluttered than previous versions. A little cleaner visually actually.

[ozinga]

If you do not use the comping lanes or mpe, extra piano roll features or mixer on the arrangement page, its mostly the same look, you are not forced to see any of the new features that you call bloat. They are out of the way. So I do not see a problem.
For me it looks much cleaner and fresh and I welcome all the additions. IMHO they are cleverly done in a non GUI bloating way. I would never got back to those tiny fader caps

[chk071]

Funny that the argument is "I don't need the new features, but they're well hidden within the software".

I don't necessarily disagree with the point that you can implement features in a non obtrusive way, but, the features are still there. Just as an example: Even the Artist version of Cubase would come with a lot of features I will never need.

I rather think DAWs should keep it simple, and clear. And, improve workflow and UI with updates. Not give you a ton of features you will probably never need, for 150 € every ear or two.

I especially scratch my head every time someone suggests that every linear DAW should have clip launchers, and act like they had to in 2024. No, they don't.

[ozinga]

Funny that the argument is "I don't need the new features, but they're well hidden within the software".

I don't necessarily disagree with the point that you can implement features in a non obtrusive way, but, the features are still there. Just as an example: Even the Artist version of Cubase would come with a lot of features I will never need.

I rather think DAWs should keep it simple, and clear. And, improve workflow and UI with updates. Not give you a ton of features you will probably never need, for 150 € every ear or two.

I especially scratch my head every time someone suggests that every linear DAW should have clip launchers, and act like they had to in 2024. No, they don't.

He is saying that he is not against the features but how they are implemented that they bloat the software and I disagree with it and believe that they are implemented in a clear and non bloated way.

[Yorrrrrr]

No, I like new features and Live 12 doesn’t feel any more cluttered than previous versions. A little cleaner visually actually.

This. To me it feels cleaner, smoother, more organized, more efficient use of space in the GUI.

[Yorrrrrr]

If you do not use the comping lanes or mpe, extra piano roll features or mixer on the arrangement page, its mostly the same look, you are not forced to see any of the new features that you call bloat. They are out of the way. So I do not see a problem.
For me it looks much cleaner and fresh and I welcome all the additions. IMHO they are cleverly done in a non GUI bloating way. I would never got back to those tiny fader caps

This too. You can still use Live 12 mostly the same way you did before, ignoring new features, they're not in the way at all, it's not like they're being forced to use.

[lfm]

Only software that are true subscription models is a hoax IMO. Nothing I ever consider.
- and you have no influence as a customer other than abandon it all together
- it stops working the spot you stop paying

Daws are fair, in that you can use what you bought and take a decision if new features are worth an upgrade or not. Even ProTools offer perpetual again.
- as a customer you can at least take a stand and upgrade or not
- this is why they add stuff, not to everybodys liking, but for some
- if not this release they might come back the next

Bottom line for me is that Cubase and Reaper is a no-no.
- Cubase because it's not reliable in some features like track templates which doesn't work and looks worse and worse
- Reaper in that they add loads of halfdone features, notation, video and still looks crap

So far my 8 year old Sonar Artist still does the job even on Windows 11, knock on wood.
- it has it's flaws but overall really good use

Cakewalk has lost it's ways it seems, in that "coming soon" never happends. Once going "free" there is no way back. So a new daw "Next" was to arrive that I don't think looks one bit interesting. I watched some early review and really don't get what is to be better in that daw and supposed to be payed version.
- I have no real issues with workflow in any daw, why make another?

It takes a good while to make full featured daw. Cockos have been going on for 20 years now and still did not attend the "looks" thingy and the simplest things like picking a couple of toolbars in a simple manner without diving into hackerland.
- we want pretty things before our eyes for so many hours a day
- and it's so flexible you don't even know where to start

I tried Bitwig trial a couple of months ago just to be stuck at this stupid google captcha to create an account, tried twice with no luck and then just uninstalled and scrapped the idea.
- most places using that captcha configured to be simpler and not like Fort Knox.