Ok thanks, yes I have the original email. I'll try to download from there.
TAL-Pha Released! Alpha Juno II Emulation from TAL-Software
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- KVRist
- 162 posts since 5 Mar, 2021
Not sure I agree with that. While (Roland) DCOs are digitally controlled analog oscillators, I don’t believe they retrigger their phase with every note-on. My expectation is that they are free running always-on, just like VCOs are.phreaque wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 2:35 pm That's the typical behavior of DCO's, their phases (along with the sub oscillator) reset & synced to a digital clock cycles (pulses).
Even in the case of the Juno-6/60/106 the sub phase is aligned & synced to the main DCO phase because both the DCO & the sub oscillator are sharing the same one clock.
With exception to JX series, their DCO's start at different phase values, I believe this is due to the implementation of the cross mod & sync between the two DCO's. Didn't check the diagrams carefully enough.
Of course, the note-on reset behavior of the TAL-Pha doesn’t model the actual Juno anyway, since the Juno never had two oscillators- just one multi-waveform one (saw, pulse, sub), always phase locked.
- KVRian
- 1377 posts since 17 Jul, 2007 from Riversland Valhalla
In the case of 2 DCO's, their phases will be retriggered because they share the same one clock.
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- KVRist
- 162 posts since 5 Mar, 2021
If understand it right, all voices (both single or dual osc) share the same single high frequency clock. So while any detuned oscillators (if dual osc) will be at a static interval against one another, any note-on should not reset any oscillator phases.
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- KVRist
- 177 posts since 1 Jul, 2020
I remember seeing that many years ago and being impressed. Tried to find it more recently but couldnt. So thanks for posting!egbert101 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:59 pm I'm glad the reception for the Alpha Juno was so positive, as I'm increasingly loving the sound. Although I would like a modern take hardware version (which won't happen). But every increase in the interest in the Junos means a greater chance of a hardware clone.
https://youtu.be/s_oq9Ty8azE
That guy should do a soundset for Pha!
And to think he managed this with only 1 envelope
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hurricaneaudiolab hurricaneaudiolab https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=424432
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 303 posts since 15 Aug, 2018
Same here - I HATE it. Otherwise this synth is great.Vortifex wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 2:13 pm That demo highlights something I don't like about the Tal-Pha, which is the phase retrigger between the two saws. You get that lasery attack which might be good for bass but I think sounds really naff in other contexts. Load up the default init, enable the other saw and add 12 cents of detune to hear it. Really wish it didn't do that.
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- KVRist
- 177 posts since 1 Jul, 2020
I know the sound without even trying this and agree i hate it too.hurricaneaudiolab wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 5:57 pmSame here - I HATE it. Otherwise this synth is great.Vortifex wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 2:13 pm That demo highlights something I don't like about the Tal-Pha, which is the phase retrigger between the two saws. You get that lasery attack which might be good for bass but I think sounds really naff in other contexts. Load up the default init, enable the other saw and add 12 cents of detune to hear it. Really wish it didn't do that.
But i bought this as an alpha juno emulation and thats how i'll be using it. So really not an issue for me personally
- KVRist
- 245 posts since 1 Sep, 2003 from Studio Telex
Just been A/Bing it with my AJ2, and I'd say it's 90-95% there, to the point of hardware tolerances between real instruments. On some the AJ was a bit fuller, and the resonance could be sweeter (an option to tweak it a la Repro might be nice) but at some point I was getting them mixed up, so that's a good blind test as I can think of.
I have to sell my studio, including my AJ2, to move home, and it's one of those synths I miss when I sell it. This will make it much easier to stomach. So, thanks Patrick, and when I have some money I will look to fill that Alpha Juno gap with this.
I have to sell my studio, including my AJ2, to move home, and it's one of those synths I miss when I sell it. This will make it much easier to stomach. So, thanks Patrick, and when I have some money I will look to fill that Alpha Juno gap with this.
- KVRAF
- 3089 posts since 10 Nov, 2013 from Germany
I checked a juno alpha video on YT and can confirm it's not reset.
Here the same note is played two times and the starting phase is different:
Also note that on talalpha there is different behavior when RR is set on or off.
With RR off (default) the initial phasing goes away after some playing while with RR on the phasing is constant.
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hurricaneaudiolab hurricaneaudiolab https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=424432
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 303 posts since 15 Aug, 2018
Feature suggestion: The FX Lock should include the chorus. Like on the J-8.
- KVRian
- 1377 posts since 17 Jul, 2007 from Riversland Valhalla
The interval is maintained exactly. There's no drift or fluctuation. Unless DCO 2 is being modulated by an LFO.
In these DCO synthesizers the clock is running all the time, regardless if note-on event is received or not.
When a note is pressed, the clock could by at high cycle or low cycle, this will define the initial "start phase point" of the DCO's, but regardless of that, both DCO phases will follow the clock cycle.
Notices in this example, I got dual DCO, both are sawtooth, 2nd DCO is fine tuned by 0.07.
Regardless of what key / note is pressed, the intervals are kept, but the DCO phases are locked to each other, even though the initial start point of the phase is varied based on key-on.
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- KVRAF
- 4039 posts since 20 Feb, 2004
Maybe ask the developer for a phase-offset knob, or a free-running osc switch? I'd definitely like that.discogsaddict wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:07 pmI know the sound without even trying this and agree i hate it too.hurricaneaudiolab wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 5:57 pmSame here - I HATE it. Otherwise this synth is great.Vortifex wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 2:13 pm That demo highlights something I don't like about the Tal-Pha, which is the phase retrigger between the two saws. You get that lasery attack which might be good for bass but I think sounds really naff in other contexts. Load up the default init, enable the other saw and add 12 cents of detune to hear it. Really wish it didn't do that.
But i bought this as an alpha juno emulation and thats how i'll be using it. So really not an issue for me personally
A well-behaved signature.
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- KVRAF
- 35569 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
Hmm... I guess that works if the oscillators don't have the same waveform, but, if they do, you get phasing. Maybe the catch-22 of adding the sawtooth waveform to the second "oscillator".phreaque wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 10:16 amThe interval is maintained exactly. There's no drift or fluctuation. Unless DCO 2 is being modulated by an LFO.
In these DCO synthesizers the clock is running all the time, regardless if note-on event is received or not.
When a note is pressed, the clock could by at high cycle or low cycle, this will define the initial "start phase point" of the DCO's, but regardless of that, both DCO phases will follow the clock cycle.
Notices in this example, I got dual DCO, both are sawtooth, 2nd DCO is fine tuned by 0.07.
Regardless of what key / note is pressed, the intervals are kept, but the DCO phases are locked to each other, even though the initial start point of the phase is varied based on key-on.
Dual DCO phases(1).png
- KVRian
- 1377 posts since 17 Jul, 2007 from Riversland Valhalla
When DCO2 is slightly detuned, the phasing occurs no matter what is the waveshape is.
FWIW, in my sketch above, both DCO's are set to sawtooth.