What exactly are LUFS

[lvlitsuo]

and how do they apply in the context of a mix? thx!

[Aloysius]

LUFS - Liverpool United Football Soccer

LUFS stands for Loudness Units relative to Full Scale or Loudness Units Full Scale (i.e., the maximum level a system can handle.) It's a standardized measurement of audio loudness that factors human perception and electrical signal intensity together.

What is the best LUFS level for streaming? -14 LUFS
The best mastering level for streaming is an integrated -14 LUFS, as it best fits the loudness normalization settings of the majority of streaming services. Although other measurements like the true peak value and other metrics need to be considered, -14 LUFS is the best mastering level when considering loudness.

[Daimonicon]

and how do they apply in the context of a mix? thx!

Forget about LUFS when mixing.

[kritikon]

Forget about LUFS for pretty well anything. -14 is the "target" for streaming and anything over that will mean your track gets normalised down but really...nobody pays any attention to it and still master for far higher LUFS. For most dancey/electronic doof-doof type stuff the LUFS target popularly aimed for is as close to zero as you can get without it sounding like white noise. Actually, most commercial music of any type is well over -14. So, in terms of relevance to your mastering then Aloysius is right - may as well use Liverpool United Football Soccer, though there's the option of Leeds United Football Soccer if you prefer it dirtier .

[EfreetiSultan]

It's just rms but a different way to measure it
Just consider it rms and ur good.

Forget about LUFS for pretty well anything. -14 is the "target" for streaming and anything over that will mean your track gets normalised down but really...

I wonder when this myth will die

[enCiphered]

It seems some confusion arises from oversimplifying LUFS as "just another RMS." It is much more than that. While RMS focuses on the average energy level of a signal, LUFS incorporates psychoacoustic models to better reflect perceived loudness, accounting for human hearing sensitivity across frequencies. This makes it crucial for broadcasting and streaming standards like EBU R128. Relying on RMS alone for loudness is nonsense and can result in inaccurate levels for human listeners, especially on modern platforms.

[EfreetiSultan]

But what about for cat listeners, would rms be good then?
Also noone said to rely on rms.. It's just that previously it is what we used, now we use LUFS, same mindset.

[lvlitsuo]

Ok, if modern technology auto-normalizes audio and LUFS can be disregarded while mixing, when is it relevant? Only live performances?

[EfreetiSultan]

Ok, if modern technology auto-normalizes audio and LUFS can be disregarded while mixing, when is it relevant? Only live performances?

Only if you're in live radio or TV
Also, no, it doesn't normalise. This is a myth.

Now, you should still use LUFS as your way to gauge loudness. Rms is ancient by now and is not accurate. But you should NOT use it as a number to aim for.
There is no number to aim for. Most modern music whether it be Spotify or radio is going to be -9 LUFS or louder. And yet they try to fool you by saying -14 is their "target" which is complete bullocks. Not one master is this quiet and most genres cannot be this quiet. It will sound bad.

[lvlitsuo]

Ok So LUFS is the Richter scale for music. got it

[EfreetiSultan]

Ok So LUFS is the Richter scale for music. got it

Yes

[mjolnir]

RMS worked fine for several decades; it's still fine to use it to get good audio work done.
No need to learn a whole new technical vocabulary. The metric system isn't dying either.
And no, you don't need to master for Spotify or YouTube. Just make good tunes, mix them well, make them worthy of CD distribution and maybe radio.

All these newer websites are partially based upon the older systems of music distribution.
Don't throw away the entire legacy of recording engineering and mastering just to blend in with degraded audio.
MP3 isn't hi fi either.

End the loudness war.

[billinder33]

Quite a variety of opinions in this thread. I'll just add my 2 cents on the meaning and importance of it...

In terms of the streaming services' recommendations, it's mostly meaningless. Except in relation to Atmos and other broadcast standards, those can be fairly strict.

IMO LUFS values are important as it pertains to your genera of music. You'll want your productions/mixes and masters to be in the same general LUFS range as other popular similar tracks. Typically, the more aggressive the style of music, the higher the LUFS value. So some common ranges:

dubstep and wubby EDM -5.5 to -6.5
house -6.5 to -7.5
modern metal -7 to -8
synthwave, pop bangers, hard rap -7.5 to -8.5
album oriented rock -8.5 to -9
Funk, mellow R&B -9 to -10
ambient, traditional jazz -11 or less

These are over-generalizations to give you some basic guidance, but note that you'll often see huge variations within generas. The streaming services will use Integrated LUFS (LUFS measured across a whole song) to evaluate a track and then volume adjust it in a playlist so all songs sound roughly the same volume. One reason many EDM productions have long, quiet intros is to lower the song's Integrated LUFs, so when the drop hits at -4.5 Short Term LUFs, it's loud AF.

So if you're producing, you'll want to keep in mind your genera's typical Integrated LUFS and typical Short Term LUFS on the loudest sections (the last drop or chorus, typically). If you're sending to a mastering engineer, they can probably squeeze an extra couple LUFS of loudness out of your track without crushing the life out of it. However, if there's no ME involved, then you'll want to learn how to at least reach the low side of your genera's typical LUFs values without squashing the music to death with 2-buss compressors and limiters.