Using guitar pedals as line level effects (e.g sends/inserts)?

[tlr]

How are you going about using guitar pedals as line level effects, e.g on mixer sends or as mixer inserts?

The general approach seems to be to use a re-amp device to emulate a guitar output, then a di device to take the instrument level output from the pedal back to a low impedance line level output. This is fine, however most of these devices seem to be fully transformer isolated and quite expensive.

I'm thinking for just using the pedals as effects rather than doing an actual re-amp with a guitar amplifier + mic, this complexity isn't really needed. It should be enough to match levels and impedance, possibly not requiring balanced in/out either. I'm yet to find any such devices though.

What are your thoughts on this?

[counterparty]

I use a Radial EXTC-stereo for this. There's another version (the 'EXTC-SA' version that has 2 fx loops) but I prefer the stereo version (that just converts to and from line level, and has 2 channels instead of 1).

[BertKoor]

With a moderate output level, most pedals will work in a send/return line loop. Feeding low inpedance when high is expected is less of an issue than the reverse.

Just try it. I have. No regrets.

[tlr]

I use a Radial EXTC-stereo for this. There's another version (the 'EXTC-SA' version that has 2 fx loops) but I prefer the stereo version (that just converts to and from line level, and has 2 channels instead of 1).

Yes, that looks to do the trick. I'd prefer 4 channels though so it gets really expensive. I don't think I really need the blend stuff.

link for reference: Radial EXTC-stereo

With a moderate output level, most pedals will work in a send/return line loop. Feeding low inpedance when high is expected is less of an issue than the reverse.

Good point, but the levels need to be lowered quite a bit which may be a problem to get right in a mixer insert for instance. It's sort of what I'm after, more of a level-shift than a full isolated setup (for cost reasons).

I remember I tried some overdrive directly on a synth output when I was really young and couldn't figure out why it distorted so crazily.

[sin night]

Some pedals work quite well with line level signals, maybe you need to keep the input level a touch lower… the problem is that you may need some gain after the pedal and, if you’re using a hardware mixer, that means you either have a device to add that gain or you push the faders up (but we should aim to keep them around 0dB, so this could could be problematic if it’s more than a touch of gain).


If you are handy with diy, there’s the pedal interface (I think that’s the name) by CGS (Cat Girl Synth by Ken Stone), with attenuators going into the pedals and a recovery stage on the return… but it’s cheaper because there are no audio transformers involved. I think it’s for modular levels, so you may need to adapt some components values.


When I used a Soundcraft Signature 22 MTK, which lacks any insert points, I used to add pedals between my synths and the mixer and I could compensate with the input gain of the channel (although I didn’t like much that workflow, because I tried to keep the gain at a fixed consistent level…).

Currently, I’m not using a mixer, so I just adjust the gain of the audio interface inputs as needed (but then I can recall my standard settings with a click…).
I have a bunch of cables dedicated to going from the computer to my MoogerFoogers, because they work with line levels but the audio interface is still a bit too hot. On each cable, I built an attenuator pad inside one of the jack, so I can safely go into the pedals without clipping them while keeping the audio outputs at unity gain.

I hope this gives you some ideas!

[sin night]

Speaking of blending, I have a blender made by Old Blood Noise Endeavors, which is a sort of a mini mixer in pedal format actually; I find it useful for those pedals without a dry/wet knob, like most distortions for example (when I want to add subtle layers to the tone, rather than completely change it).

[tlr]

If you are handy with diy, there’s the pedal interface (I think that’s the name) by CGS (Cat Girl Synth by Ken Stone), with attenuators going into the pedals and a recovery stage on the return… but it’s cheaper because there are no audio transformers involved. I think it’s for modular levels, so you may need to adapt some components values.[/url]

Seems a good fit, but rather not build anything if it's available. The keyword here seems to be "stompbox adapter", and like you state they are all made for eurorack/modular levels.

When I used a Soundcraft Signature 22 MTK, which lacks any insert points, I used to add pedals between my synths and the mixer and I could compensate with the input gain of the channel (although I didn’t like much that workflow, because I tried to keep the gain at a fixed consistent level…).
...

Good suggestions. What I'm trying to do here is putting together something easily patchable into the mixing flow, so I would rather avoid using tricks that need careful tweaking of gains.

I must say I'm quite surprised there is no such product.

[Laser1234]

Many pedals don't seem to need anything, except careful handling of levels etc!