USB interface or old midi in/out?

[tombikadam]

Guys, I am considering buying a stage piano, like a Yamaha P225, the problem here is I want to do midi recording via a DAW so the new stage pianos have only a USB interface but when you look at KORG, some models have the old Midi in/out interfaces, which one should I choose?

[lfm]

I don't like usb midi due to that when gear is not powered up computer will have different midi available and causing a mess opening daw that will reference midi used on some tracks not there and popups saying so etc.

This apart from that too much usb may cause ground loops, since din midi has optocouplers so no electric contact between gear on that side.

But I had many Yamaha Clavinovas, 4 actually, and they all have had din midi. It's the cheaper P-series that cut costs on all levels.

But if going stage piano, I have the Kawai MP7SE which is remarkable unit compared to the Yamaha I had. You can do stretch tunings and all sorts of adjustments to make it sound as you want.

[tombikadam]

I don't like usb midi due to that when gear is not powered up computer will have different midi available and causing a mess opening daw that will reference midi used on some tracks not there and popups saying so etc.

This apart from that too much usb may cause ground loops, since din midi has optocouplers so no electric contact between gear on that side.

But I had many Yamaha Clavinovas, 4 actually, and they all have had din midi. It's the cheaper P-series that cut costs on all levels.

But if going stage piano, I have the Kawai MP7SE which is remarkable unit compared to the Yamaha I had. You can do stretch tunings and all sorts of adjustments to make it sound as you want.

but with USB to host, is it possible to do midi recording right?

[pljones]

> din midi has optocouplers

So says the spec. Reality may vary. (I don't think my UA Volt2 had optocoupling. My TrapKAT had a couple of static shock resets whilst I was using it. Never happened on my AudioFire4.)

> but with USB to host, is it possible to do midi recording right?

As it is with DIN MIDI to the host.

[lfm]

I think din midi inputs are to have optocouplers. Midi out not.
- should be a current loop from sender to receiver
- but as you said, maybe not.

I discovered on spdif coax are supposed to have isolating transformers for the same reason, but that is not the case always either.

[cryophonik]

Guys, I am considering buying a stage piano, like a Yamaha P225, the problem here is I want to do midi recording via a DAW so the new stage pianos have only a USB interface but when you look at KORG, some models have the old Midi in/out interfaces, which one should I choose?

I currently have 15 hardware synths in my studio (and have had dozens more in the past few decades), most of which have both USB and 5-pin MIDI and a few older synths that only have 5-pin. About half of my synths are connected via 5-pin MIDI to my MOTU 8x8 interface and the other half are connected by USB, with some of them being connected with both. I have not noticed a difference with them as far as recording/playing MIDI in my DAW goes and I don’t have a problem with any ground noise when using MIDI over USB - to my knowledge, that’s primarily an issue with devices that are powered by USB, so I wouldn’t expect that to affect a stage piano with a dedicated power supply. So, personally, I wouldn’t let that affect my decision too much when considering different stage pianos.

[kritikon]

Must admit I've collected enough gear again that MIDI is becoming an issue again. I have an old 7-way MIDI patchbay, but not enough, though it's rare I need to be using all gear at the same time. Was looking at one (or two) of those MOTU patchbays, but none of the NZ dealers stock them or even seem to know what they are, so I'd have to buy from overseas...anywhere in US seem to charge like wounded bulls for shipping .

So, a couple of questions, as I don't want to get into daisy-chaining again. That works, but not ideal.

1. Can you still reliably do MIDI over USB via a USB hub? I thought hubs were supposed to be a bit dodgy? Without one of them, I see no benefit in USB as it still means repatching all the time. If hubs are workable I should properly consider USB nowadays. I can see benefits, such as the Behringer TD3 sequencer has an app via USB which is better than the silly onboard 303 job (anything is better than a 303 sequencer)

2. Know of any other MIDI patchbay makers? All I could find were MOTU.

[cryophonik]

1. Can you still reliably do MIDI over USB via a USB hub? I thought hubs were supposed to be a bit dodgy? Without one of them, I see no benefit in USB as it still means repatching all the time. If hubs are workable I should properly consider USB nowadays. I can see benefits, such as the Behringer TD3 sequencer has an app via USB which is better than the silly onboard 303 job (anything is better than a 303 sequencer)

I use an ACASIS 16-port powered USB hub (~$70 USD), including with a TD-3 and TD-3 MO, without any problems.

2. Know of any other MIDI patchbay makers? All I could find were MOTU.

iConnectivity is another brand to check out. Their better multi-in/out interfaces include both standard 5-pin DIN and USB connections. I've only used their 1x1 Mio and it works flawlessly with my Macs (I use it as a dedicated MIDI connection for my Virus TI2), but I can't vouch for their other interface models. I think they get mostly positive reviews, although I personally hate the fact that the USB input for connecting the interface to the computer is located on the front of the unit and I've read other complaints about that as well. That said, there is also a LAN connection on the rear of the unit, so that might be a better connection option.

[D-Fusion]

Must admit I've collected enough gear again that MIDI is becoming an issue again. I have an old 7-way MIDI patchbay, but not enough, though it's rare I need to be using all gear at the same time. Was looking at one (or two) of those MOTU patchbays, but none of the NZ dealers stock them or even seem to know what they are, so I'd have to buy from overseas...anywhere in US seem to charge like wounded bulls for shipping .

So, a couple of questions, as I don't want to get into daisy-chaining again. That works, but not ideal.

1. Can you still reliably do MIDI over USB via a USB hub? I thought hubs were supposed to be a bit dodgy? Without one of them, I see no benefit in USB as it still means repatching all the time. If hubs are workable I should properly consider USB nowadays. I can see benefits, such as the Behringer TD3 sequencer has an app via USB which is better than the silly onboard 303 job (anything is better than a 303 sequencer)

2. Know of any other MIDI patchbay makers? All I could find were MOTU.

https://www.esi-audio.com/products/m8uex/

[Uncle E]

iConnectivity is another brand to check out. Their better multi-in/out interfaces include both standard 5-pin DIN and USB connections. I've only used their 1x1 Mio and it works flawlessly with my Macs

+1 on iConnectivity Mio. Always works flawlessly. In comparison, the M-Audio Uno it replaced caused me problems every time I rebooted.

[kritikon]

Thanks guys . All good options. I'll check out iConnectivity, and I guess a big USB hub is viable - not all of my stuff has USB on it anyway.

[kritikon]

1 dealer in Aus is the only place remotely close has the big Mio at Aus$729, which seems about right and has something like 10 USBs and ?8 midis (in + out). Audio Chocolate - great name for a music supplies dealer. Pretty sure they ship to NZ and it is quite tempting. But TBH at that price - it'll be a USB hub

[Uncle E]

My used Mio was a whopping $25.

[Constructed Identity]

Guys, I am considering buying a stage piano, like a Yamaha P225, the problem here is I want to do midi recording via a DAW so the new stage pianos have only a USB interface but when you look at KORG, some models have the old Midi in/out interfaces, which one should I choose?

Unless you are going to be sending banks and/or updating firmware, go with DIN MIDI.
1. better physical connection
2. more consistent cable construction
3. cheaper

[cryophonik]

Unless you are going to be sending banks and/or updating firmware, go with DIN MIDI.
1. better physical connection
2. more consistent cable construction
3. cheaper

I agree with #1, but disagree with 2 and 3. I have a pile of dead MIDI cables in the bottom of a drawer that have accumulated over the years, some of which were pretty expensive, but can’t say the same for USB cables. Which leads to #3 - Decent MIDI cables aren’t as cheap as decent USB cables. Also, USB cables don’t require an interface so, unless you already have a MIDI interface (maybe built into your audio interface), that’s an additional expense. Ultimately, I don’t think any of these matter too much if it’s just for studio use.