Windows 11 unsupported device users - What's the plan?

[lotus2035]

With the Windows 10 support deadline looming and many people, myself included, still on machines that are not officially compatible with Windows 11, I was curious to hear from others regarding what you plan to do in the coming months, or maybe you’ve taken action already.

I use a pretty powerful Dell Precision Workstation from 2017 which is in perfect condition, super stable and is more than enough for my needs (I’ve used far less powerful machines to get work done down through the years).
I have absolutely no viable reason for buying a new machine right now other than Microsoft’s arbitrary requirements just so that I can run some superfluous Windows 11 back-end stuff that are of zero consequence to me.

I’m fully aware that there are workarounds to install Windows 11 on unsupported machines but I have no idea if there are going to be any long term issues regarding getting (music production) software to run properly etc.

So, for those of you with unsupported machines, how are you dealing with this situation?
Are you running Windows 11 on your unsupported device with some tweaks? How is that working out?
Or did you bite the bullet and abandon a perfectly good machine just for some shiny new Windows 11 graphics?
Have you decided to dump windows entirely and switched to Linux? (not an option for me, Windows music production tools are too much a part of my workflow).
Maybe freezing your Windows 10 installation and disconnecting it from the internet?
Or worst case scenario, bought yourself a Mac?

For my part I plan on running Windows 10 right down to the wire and then I’ll either just pay for the damn official Windows 10 support to push the same headache down the line a couple of years or I’ll install Windows 11 with the requirements de-activated (I believe you can do that in Rufus while burning the Windows 11 ISO) and hope that I don't run into any serious issues.

Haven’t made my mind up yet but will be keeping an eye on things between now and October.
What say you?

[sprnva]

My "studio" is powered by macOS Monterey and will likely stay that way. But my "everything else" computer (gaming, emulation, movies, music, graphics, interwebs etc) has been on Linux for about a year and a half now. I still have Windows 10 on there as a dual-boot but rarely find the need to boot it.

I wasn't really planning a switch to Linux but at the time my computer wasn't Windows 11 compatible (I upgraded it about a month after switching) and even if it was I didn't want that crap on it. I saw some videos about people running SteamOS on PCs so I was curious to see how it went. I didn't manage to get it going due to the old nvidia card I had but with a regular Linux install going I was amazed at how well Windows games ran via Proton. No perceivable difference from Windows. After a year and half of Linux there's no way I'd go back to Windows now. It's over.

[lotus2035]

Thanks. I have no loyalty to Microsoft myself and do run Linux Mint on an old laptop which was struggling under Windows 10. However I have too many music production tools on Windows to make the switch worthwhile and the Windows 10 experience is a smooth one for me 99% of the time.
In general Linux can be fine unless you run into problems where it can be a huge headache and I am not looking to spend the next couple of years familiarizing myself with the ins and outs of a new OS (regarding troubleshooting).
But I digress and don't intend for this to become a Linux thread.

What hardware upgrades did you make that made your machine Windows 11 compatible? (even if you didn't actually upgrade to Win 11).

[jdnz]

For my part I plan on running Windows 10 right down to the wire and then I’ll either just pay for the damn official Windows 10 support to push the same headache down the line a couple of years or I’ll install Windows 11 with the requirements de-activated (I believe you can do that in Rufus while burning the Windows 11 ISO) and hope that I don't run into any serious issues.

I did some testing at work on some old HP z240s with the current 24h2 win11 release - the z240 has tpm and can be set to either tpm1.2 ( not supported by win11 ) and tpm2.0 ( win11 compliant - but of course the i7-6700 cpu isn't 'supported' ) - tested basically all combinations of tpm off/tpm 1.2/tpm2.0 and virtualisation on/off both doing a clean install off the .iso and a forced in-place upgrade.

In all cases 24h2 was fine once running - slight speed impact with virtualisation on ( as win11 then uses VBS ), and with tpm2.0 it also decided to turn on bitlocker ( without asking me ).

I also tested with both the i7-6700 on-cpu graphics ( ok - well no less slow than in win10 at least ) and with a few 'old' gpus ( gtx 750 and quadro 620 ) - again all work fine. About the only thing that causes even minor issues was shoving in an old intel x540-t2 10gbe card ( as you can probably guess I was raiding our old/spare parts bin for stuff hoping to find issues ) - win11 didn't find drivers for that automatically and I had to manually install the intel wired drivers after which it worked just fine

So as far as I can tell zero issues CURRENTLY running win11 on 'unsupported' hardware - but of course the big worry is microsoft's threat to pull the rug out from under people using win11 on such hardware at some unknown point in the future ( there's not technical reason to do that as win11 iot edition is fully supported on hardware with old cpus and no tpm ) - and that's the big issue, microsoft could on a whim release an update that rigorously enforces their (totally artificial) barrier to entry

win10 with extended support is definitely an option for at least the next couple of years - but at the same time microsoft has also stated that even WITH extended support win10 will cease to be 'supported' in office365 come the october 25 end of support date for win10 ( again it's impossible to tell if this is more scaremongering or whether they will intentionally break office at that stage to try and force upgrading - though with a LOT of corporates paying for ES and also paying big bucks to microsoft for office365 it'd be pretty brave of them to do that to them )

[lotus2035]

Very useful info jdnz, cheers.

...but of course the big worry is microsoft's threat to pull the rug out from under people using win11 on such hardware at some unknown point in the future ( there's not technical reason to do that as win11 iot edition is fully supported on hardware with old cpus and no tpm ) - and that's the big issue, microsoft could on a whim release an update that rigorously enforces their (totally artificial) barrier to entry

I was gonna mention this in my original post, what's to stop them doing it again in a few years to Win 11 users. Nothing at all of course. Looks like we are possibly entering a new era of forced upgrades and perfectly functioning junked PCs. Although I feel in the long run this will be bad business for Microsoft. There is already backlash to this particular forced upgrade and I am sure the vast majority are still on Windows 10. Microsoft should be panicking.

[sprnva]

What hardware upgrades did you make that made your machine Windows 11 compatible? (even if you didn't actually upgrade to Win 11).

I upgraded most of it. It was all 10-12 years old at that stage (i7-2600k and GTX 670). I wasn't in a big hurry to upgrade as it was doing fine for what I needed. Then between bitcoin mining and the covid supply mayhem a graphics card upgrade was out of the question for a few years.

As things had gotten back to some kind of normality I replaced the mobo, cpu, ram and gpu.

[lotus2035]

Okay, so it became almost a new computer then?

[sprnva]

Just like Microsoft wants!

[audiojunkie]

I started using Linux for “audio production” back in 2017, if I remember correctly. I started using Linux before that for everything else back in 2011. Prior to that, I had been dabbling and learning Linux since about around 1992-93.

I have literally been playing with it since the beginning. There are now enough apps and tools, and Linux has now matured enough, that you can do pretty much anything you may want or need to do on Linux.

There are workarounds for most of the things one may need but lack on Linux. It’s only those very tiny edge cases, such as the lack of deeply scripted acoustic/real-world instruments, such as Kontakt sampled guitars that are missing. And even with those cases, there are good substitutes, such as Musiclab’s realguitar series that can run in WINE.

With linux, problems with malware are minimal. I’ve never been infected with malware, and I’ve never had to use antivirus tools.

With Linux, problems with telemetry gathering, targeted advertising, your interactions being fed to an AI, and other invasions of your privacy are minimal. There have been a couple of times where someone has tried to slip it through, but you can’t hide much from others for long when your code is open sourced.

There are multiple different desktop environments available, and literally hundreds of distros available to choose from. There is a different ideology, management, structure, design, and support behind each of these. You are sure to find a match that works best for you.

With Linux, the entire operating system is wide open to you. You can customize it to make it specifically what you want it to be. You can make it do exactly what you want it to do, and how you want it to do it. You could run doom off of a tiny device charged by a potato if you want. Run it off of a normal desktop or laptop and do everything any other OS can do. Most of the world’s supercomputers use it by default. Linux is used by the world’s space equipment. It’s the best OS on Mars right now—which makes it the best OS in the two worlds!

Are there pros and cons to linux? Sure there are! There are with every OS out there. Macs “just work”. Anyone’s grandmother can use them. They are powerful, and built well. Most software you could want is available for them. But, you have to deal with planned obsolescence, which costs you. You are largely held to Apple’s walled garden of applications, and forever tied to Apple’s ecosystem. If you have the money to keep up with the planned obsolescence, and you don’t mind being unable to do whatever you want with your computer, an an Apple may be a good choice for you.

Windows is a solid middle ground. It is much more flexible, and is a good solid setup for most people. Most applications are available on this platform. However, you still aren’t as free to do whatever you want, and there is still obsolescence—often way before the usefulness of your computer is used up. A good example of this is the Windows TPM requirements. Many of you will be running out of support for Windows 10 soon.

There are still solutions for you though. You could air gap your computer and not have to worry about viruses and malware that way. You could install Windows 11 and bypass the requirements like TPM and such. You could stay the course and just go on unprotected (that truly is a possibility, because the older Windows 10 gets, the less likely that hackers will be targeting old model OSes). Or, for that machine that Windows has decided to leave behind, you could install breath new life into that new machine by installing a “lite” distro of Linux on it.

You’d have a modern, updated OS that uses less resources and runs faster than your Windows OS did. You might have to choose some Linux alternatives for the Windows software you used previously. Most of these apps would be free/open source. Some of your Windows apps would still have use—you could certainly keep using many of them through WINE. But you would find that your computer still has many more years of useful life in it.

Like with all things, there are different ways of doing things. Linux is as different from Windows as Windows is from Apple. But it’s not so bad. You would still have to face a learning curve, but that is how everything is in life. Those who are willing to learn about Linux will likely find that it suits them. Some dabble with it and use it to keep their machines alive for a few more years. Some fall in love with it and never want to go back. The best thing is, that the choice is yours to make. Don’t let someone tell you what you can or cannot do with your own computer.

[lotus2035]

But I digress and don't intend for this to become a Linux thread.

Oh dear.

[mjolnir]

I am on Manjaro Linux but had been seriously thinking about migrating back into Windows until I found out that my system can't do Windows 11 at all and I remember that it could barely run Windows 10 when I bought it new. I am strongly considering biting the bullet to go DAWless, but the cashflow is low since I got some medical bills that popped up. It could be great to get away from online distractions as I had a hardware studio back in the mid 1990s. However, my brainpower is the weakest link in the chain lately. I just can't concentrate very well lately, so it makes it difficult for me to rationalize ANY big purchases. DAWless isn't cheap, but I'm still thinking about maybe something simple as long as it's not obsolete. (And unfortunately, some of my favorite devices are quickly becoming obsolete and difficult to support).

VERDICT(!): I'm screwwed.

[VitaminD]

My hardware will support windows 11. And Microsoft occasionally loves to push (annoy) me to upgrade to it for free. But no thank you.

I plan on doing the same thing I'm already doing -- use windows 10 and keep a decent, updated firewall.

In a couple of years, if it is really causing problems then I'll switch to 11 or 12 if its out. Remember 10 was sold by MS as the last windows version. From here on out they were supposedly going to have service updates only. We see how that worked out..

Basic new PCs are dirt cheap today so if it became a problem, I'd just buy a new one. No use trying to stress and belabor myself with workarounds when I can resolve all issues with a new system.

[michat]

I've spent a few thousand € for a computer specifically designed for audio and music production 8 years ago and the components are also not supported by win 11. Microsoft is willing to produce tons of garbage of older components and I pretty much dislike their route. Right now I don't know if I install win 11 anyway, taking into account that my computer will be banned from their update plans and support, or of I just stay with win 10. A stuff is getting more and more expensive and I'm just doing this as a hobby, I won't buy new stuff ending in the same situation in 8 or 10 years from now.

[lotus2035]

It'll be interesting to see how long Windows 10 will run long after even the paid official support has stopped. I'm sure there are still people out there on Windows 7 and maybe even XP, not in the world of music production or other creative areas but who just browse and carry out basic tasks etc who manage in some way without any major problems.
As for Windows 10, I would fully expect that there will be a LOT of people on unsupported machines who will have no interest in buying new ones. As a result, newer 3rd party alternatives might arise that will help prolong Windows 10 shelf-life in one way or the other. An existing example would be 0patch which even supports Windows 7 but others will appear no doubt.
Of course all our favorite music software companies will be forced to play along with OS changes, then the question becomes which plugins will continue to run on Windows 10 going forwards.

Having said that, always in the back of my mind is the fact that the entire problem disappears if you choose to go OFFLINE, the idea of freezing an OS and it's software entirely using your machine as a closed system capable of everything you need becomes an option. Which in itself is not dissimilar to going the hardware route right? I mean, if everything works without any major issues and you get results, then what more do you need?
Sure the easiest route is to just go ahead and buy a new machine but as others have mentioned, even if you do, whats to stop Microsoft pulling the rug out from under you again in 5 years time?

[DevonB]

It'll be interesting to see how long Windows 10 will run long after even the paid official support has stopped. I'm sure there are still people out there on Windows 7 and maybe even XP, not in the world of music production or other creative areas but who just browse and carry out basic tasks etc who manage in some way without any major problems.

Windows XP connected to the internet will get infected within minutes with all the unpatched security holes. I wouldn't advise it.

Devon