I Have A Confession To Make

[BONES]

I know I always say that I f**king hate production, because for a long time I really have hated it, but the process we have been going through with our new album has actually been almost enjoyable and rewarding. Go figure?

I think it's a combination of factors. In the past, we've had the songs, or at least the ideas that become the songs, lying around for ages before we decide to work towards a new release. This album has been a bit different because we didn't have anything when we decided to start working on it, so it feels like it has come together a lot more quickly. That means it hasn't really become a slog (yet).

Using AI to help with lyrics has also contributed. I still hate having to sit down and write lyrics and that's often a big hump for me to get over that can hold up the process for months (literally). This time, I've been collecting a gazillion lines and rhymes and ideas, via a bit of back-and-forth with a few different AIs, which has not only helped materially but has also sparked my own creativity in ways that wouldn't have happened otherwise.

All of this has also contributed to the process feeling more organic, more old-school. With past albums, by the time we've got to recording vocals, it's all been worked out and we put 'em down as written and that's that. This time around we've been experimenting with different structures, different meters and rhyming patterns, etc. within the same song, doing the vox two or three different ways and rewriting things on the fly. That makes it feel a lot more like a musical process, rather than the spreadsheet feel of sitting in front of any DAW and doing the technical stuff. Of course, there has still been plenty of that but it's been interspersed with other, more enjoyable tasks that have made the boring stuff feel less onerous and more relevant to the rest of the process.

What we have to do now is hope that this is reflected in the results and that we again manage to better that which has gone before. The proof of the pudding will be in the eating but we're still a few weeks away from completion so we're not there yet. We had a f**king great session last night and sorted out issues with several of the songs, so confidence right now is high.

The album will be called BeLIEve, and we've mostly got the artwork sorted. All we need are the finished songs to put on it.

BELIEVE_COVER_2k.jpg

[jamcat]

I thought you were going to tell us that nothing comes between you and your Calvins.

[enroe]

Using AI to help with lyrics has also contributed. I still hate having to sit down and write lyrics and that's often a big hump for me to get over that can hold up the process for months (literally). This time, I've been collecting a gazillion lines and rhymes and ideas, via a bit of back-and-forth with a few different AIs, which has not only helped materially but has also sparked my own creativity in ways that wouldn't have happened otherwise.
...

Mmmmh ... if I understand correctly, then the AI ​​made the big difference?
You got even more involved with the AI ​​- and that made the production
more relaxed and even more experimental?

[eLawnMust]

By the title I thought it was gonna be something gay... Nope, not that good... Using AI? Then what good is anyone, what value is there?

If you cannot think of lyrics then put cuss words in there that way nobody will steal your music which is so easy nowadays & most will never know they got buggered... I have a few decent tunes & they will never see the internet, I just upload bits-pieces or tunes done in retro trackers...

Yea BONES, I was working on THIS tune 2 years ago when you stated that tracker tunes "have always been bad"... That is the point in this tune I added a few vocals 'Just for YOU'... It ain't great but it's done in AXS which is a 352 KB Exe & a few other files freeware from 2001 (ported from DOS)... Fun challenge though...

https://soundcloud.com/waxing-and-waning/pulp-friction

[Uncle E]

The album will be called BeLIEve, and we've mostly got the artwork sorted.

Artwork looks killer.

[osiris]

Bones when did you start doing old Cher covers?

[BONES]

We just stole the title for the album, although we might cover it for a B-side if we get the chance, just for shits and giggles.

Mmmmh ... if I understand correctly, then the AI ​​made the big difference?
You got even more involved with the AI ​​- and that made the production
more relaxed and even more experimental?

Pretty much. It's the same as working with any collaborator. Even working from factory or third party patch libraries can make you do things differently to the way you might do them if you insist on doing 100% of everything yourself.

Using AI? Then what good is anyone, what value is there?

What's the good of using a DAW you haven't made yourself? A synthesiser you haven't made yourself? Factory patches made by someone else? Where you draw the line is completely arbitrary. Writers use a thesaurus so they don't keep using the same old words all the time, how is using AI any different?

II was working on THIS tune 2 years ago when you stated that tracker tunes "have always been bad"...

... and this just proves my point. I couldn't listen long enough to get to the vox, it's so f**king bad. The sounds and arrangement are OK but you really need to concentrate on your mixing skills.

Artwork looks killer.

It's based on one of thousands of images my bandmate produced with AI. It featured minimally in the booklet for our last album but I've used AI up-res to make it look a lot slicker. I had to fix up a few areas where the perspective was wrong and I've added a few things in overlay but, like the last album cover, most of the work is done by AI.

We both really like the look he used to get from Mid Journey, back when most people still thought it was krap. Now it's got so good that it's lost a lot of its quirky charm.

[funky lime]

Yea BONES, I was working on THIS tune 2 years ago when you stated that tracker tunes "have always been bad"... That is the point in this tune I added a few vocals 'Just for YOU'... It ain't great but it's done in AXS which is a 352 KB Exe & a few other files freeware from 2001 (ported from DOS)... Fun challenge though...

https://soundcloud.com/waxing-and-waning/pulp-friction

This is really cool! Nice lyrics too haha

[enroe]

Mmmmh ... if I understand correctly, then the AI ​​made the big difference?
You got even more involved with the AI ​​- and that made the production
more relaxed and even more experimental?

Pretty much. It's the same as working with any collaborator. Even working from factory or third party patch libraries can make you do things differently to the way you might do them if you insist on doing 100% of everything yourself.

Using AI? Then what good is anyone, what value is there?

What's the good of using a DAW you haven't made yourself? A synthesiser you haven't made yourself? Factory patches made by someone else? Where you draw the line is completely arbitrary. Writers use a thesaurus so they don't keep using the same old words all the time, how is using AI any different?

No, you are completely wrong!

Where you draw the line is NOT arbitrary. Because as soon as
the AI ​​takes over your creative work, you enter into a pact with
the devil. And this pact costs you EVERYTHING! You are no
longer the artist, the AI ​​is. It is no longer your song, but the AI's!

The next step is very small. And this step means that you press
the AI ​​button and the AI ​​presents you with the entire song: It has
then thought up the lyrics, created the composition and already
done the whole mix itself. All you have to do is press the button.

You can then say "look, my great song!" But you know yourself:
it was just a push of a button. You are not involved in it at all.
Yes - you actually have nothing to do with the song anymore!

And that's exactly the direction you're going in if you let the AI ​​
create the lyrics! Or if you let it suggest just parts of them!

The listener expects the lyrics to have a special magic, a
profound statement or a significant event that the artist has
struggled with for days or even weeks. But that's wrong: the
AI ​​produces a few sentences at the push of a button. And the
listener doesn't know that!

"The listener doesn't know that!" - that's true, but YOU know that.
And how are YOU going to look in the mirror in the morning if
YOU know that? How are YOU going to identify with the song
when its statements no longer come from you, but are
generated at the push of a button? The lines sound good, but
they're actually dead. The song sounds good, but it's actually
dead, lifeless, meaningless!

I think by using AI at a creative point, YOU have devalued all
your songs to junk level and into irrelevance. The deal with the
devil has destroyed you as an artist.

[seafire]

Nurse!

[kmonkey]

I am glad you and your band started to enjoy part of the process in your band. It is irrelevant what tool you used the only thing that matters is that you guys are satisfied with your end result.

People who think AI is cheating or have moral dilemmas don't understand the tool. It's no different than other artists using a pre-made patch preset on a synths for example. And throughout the whole music history that is the case.

My point is, that you use tech/tools to finish your work and enjoy your work. It is a bit of a refreshment to read a story like this in the morning.

Have a great weekend.

[Jac459]

Mmmmh ... if I understand correctly, then the AI ​​made the big difference?
You got even more involved with the AI ​​- and that made the production
more relaxed and even more experimental?

Pretty much. It's the same as working with any collaborator. Even working from factory or third party patch libraries can make you do things differently to the way you might do them if you insist on doing 100% of everything yourself.

Using AI? Then what good is anyone, what value is there?

What's the good of using a DAW you haven't made yourself? A synthesiser you haven't made yourself? Factory patches made by someone else? Where you draw the line is completely arbitrary. Writers use a thesaurus so they don't keep using the same old words all the time, how is using AI any different?

No, you are completely wrong!

Where you draw the line is NOT arbitrary. Because as soon as
the AI ​​takes over your creative work, you enter into a pact with
the devil. And this pact costs you EVERYTHING! You are no
longer the artist, the AI ​​is. It is no longer your song, but the AI's!

The next step is very small. And this step means that you press
the AI ​​button and the AI ​​presents you with the entire song: It has
then thought up the lyrics, created the composition and already
done the whole mix itself. All you have to do is press the button.

You can then say "look, my great song!" But you know yourself:
it was just a push of a button. You are not involved in it at all.
Yes - you actually have nothing to do with the song anymore!

And that's exactly the direction you're going in if you let the AI ​​
create the lyrics! Or if you let it suggest just parts of them!

The listener expects the lyrics to have a special magic, a
profound statement or a significant event that the artist has
struggled with for days or even weeks. But that's wrong: the
AI ​​produces a few sentences at the push of a button. And the
listener doesn't know that!

"The listener doesn't know that!" - that's true, but YOU know that.
And how are YOU going to look in the mirror in the morning if
YOU know that? How are YOU going to identify with the song
when its statements no longer come from you, but are
generated at the push of a button? The lines sound good, but
they're actually dead. The song sounds good, but it's actually
dead, lifeless, meaningless!

I think by using AI at a creative point, YOU have devalued all
your songs to junk level and into irrelevance. The deal with the
devil has destroyed you as an artist.

I guess you must be joking. If so, it is quite funny.

If not, of course this rant doesn't make any sense because the same thing you say can absolutely been said about sampling.
It is a 40+ years old discussion and it has been solved.
Yes - similarly than when you use a guitar - you are relying on the work of other people in order to produce your work. Because of the tools you use, because of the culture you use, because of the reference you use. Is it a philosophical problem ? Nobody cares as long as it makes the song better.

Gorillaz and Daft Punk have sampled stuffs in a way that I would never dare too (or never been confortable with).
Jokes on me. They are the ones in the true.

[Tiles]

Where you draw the line is NOT arbitrary. Because as soon as
the AI ​​takes over your creative work, you enter into a pact with
the devil. And this pact costs you EVERYTHING! You are no
longer the artist, the AI ​​is. It is no longer your song, but the AI's!

But that's the whole story of making music since mankind exists. Most of us musicians re-uses and recombinates what already exists. Over and over again.

You use song patterns that somebody else invented.
You use harmonys and riffs that somebody else invented.
You use instruments that somebody else invented.
You use rhmye forms that somebody else invented.
You even use words that somebody else invented. Your mother language was invented by a whole contry.

That's why AI solutions like Udio or Suno are able to get so good at writing music. The patterns and rules and the sound all exists. We just add some randomness to it. Even the song ideas is already given by our human nature. Most of the pop songs deals with emotions like love, fear, hate and the combination of it. And that's why you cannot really find a difference anymore between hand written and AI generated pop songs.

I find it a big misunderstanding that AI would take over your work in the moment when you use it. This is simply not the case. AI is a tool, a collaborator. Not a creator. It needs your input to work. You tell it what you need, and it delivers then. The creator is still you. And be it by deciding which of two images is the better one.

The culprit is for me that i want to achieve a goal. And when i can achieve my goal with AI in a better way than with traditional methods, then i will use AI for the job. For example, i create the videos for my music with AI. I would be able to produce it in the traditional way too, i did 3D graphics and games for quite a few years before. But it is simply a matter of time. To create an AI video takes usually one or two days for me. Making a video with traditional artistic methods takes weeks and months. And now try to visualize a whole album.

I would not use AI to write my songs though. Not even the text. I can get much closer to my goal with the traditional methods. AI cannot express this for me. That's where i personally draw the line. ChtGPT already supports me in finding my lyrics ideas though. The step where you formerly wrote down a few buzzwords and started to toy around with it ...

[VariKusBrainZ]

Well done for knowing when to give up.
You forgot to hit the delete key

I was working on THIS tune 2 years ago
https://soundcloud.com/waxing-and-waning/pulp-friction

[VariKusBrainZ]

The listener expects the lyrics to have a special magic, a
profound statement or a significant event that the artist has
struggled with for days or even weeks. :

I wanna really, really, really wanna zigazig ah