New Host development?

[sl23]

Hi there...

Well, first, I am not a programmer, and am not making any requests to anyone either. I am simply asking for advice on how to proceed with a project, it's viability and whether it's even possible seeing as I know nothing about VST development! After a fair amount of research on what's involved, I'm guessing this is way out of my league, but is still something I am really interested in trying!

Ok, so a short backstory, sorry if you developers dislike this, I'm open to the negativity and expect it! So, not being a programmer and wanting to learn about developing, I started off updating some projects using AI... Here it comes... I'm ready!!!

Well, I made some updates to existing apps and even just finished a web tracking app which cost me around $150 or so after paying for Copilot Claude Opus! But it was worth it, because I enjoyed it and it was something I could never do otherwise. Still not quite finished, but near enough.

One thing led to another and I then had the idea for another personal project, not something I guess many will be interested in, but I will likely share it if it's actually possible, I don't know from a tech point of view if this can be done. It sounds fairly simple in principal, but one thing I found out is that nothing is simple in programming! lol

Right, so, the idea... It's something I tend to use a lot, but no-one seems interested in developing any more. Three apps specifically are related to this desire for an integrated app:
TobyBear MiniHost
SaviHost
Tone2 NanoHost

All of these are great and I found useful since around 2010. What I would like to do is integrate all these into one app. Personally, I don't mind about the optional extras that each offers, for me it is simply loading the plugin and setting a MIDI input device and off you go. The key thing though, is that I would like to make a simple host that can load several plugin formats, namely VST2, VST3, CLAP, and also 32/64bit plugins.

I asked duckai about this and got some info on requiring SDK's for each, and how to acquire them. Although VST2 SDK is apparently no longer available, but I was told if I can get hold of it, and not use the headers or something, then it's ok, to use, but I don't know the legality of that, or where I could even get hold of it?!

I will stress, this is a personal project only, but will likely end up on Github with my other small projects, in case anyone would be interested in such thing.

My main points for the app would be:

• Allow file associations so you can double click plugins to open in the app. I've done this with VST2x32/TBMiniHost, VST2x64/T2NanoHost and VST3/SaviHost.

• I would like to make a tabbed interface, where the first tab accepts a single synth and up to maybe 4 or 8 other tabs for FX.

• Obviously, full MIDI support. Likely MIDI 2.0 now?

• Patch browsing/organisation of some sort. Mainly for those plugins that have poor patch browsing.

There will also be several other things, but the core of the app should be that. Although... One other thing and this may be way over my head (this whole project may actually be too!), but maybe have a plugin version of the app too to allow old plugins be used in new hosts?

Just some ideas I've been thinking about.

I need to know exactly what is required, to get started, the real world viability of such a project, mainly things like bridging, use of multiple plugin formats, SDK aquirement, things like that. So if anyone could offer some guidance please, I'd be really grateful, thank you.

I know there are many who will look on my use of AI with disdane, but not all of us had the opportunity, will or ability to learn how to program. As much as I would have loved to, personal issues get in the way. I have a lot of respect for those that do, more so after delving into it with AI, but it is something I will unlikely ever be able to learn. So please be kind!

[Music Engineer]

Are you aware of the JUCE Plugin Host:

https://github.com/juce-framework/JUCE/ ... PluginHost

and KushView Element:

https://kushview.net/element/
https://github.com/kushview/element/tree/main

Maybe one of them could do what you want. It may be overkill if all that you want is a way to run a plugin like a standalone app, though - but having a modular routing environment available is actually a great added value.

I remember having used VSTHost (the parent project of SAVIHost) in the 00s for plugin testing/debugging purposes (and before that MiniHost as well) but switched to using the JUCE Host soon after switching to using JUCE from the raw VST-SDK for writing my plugins because it's kind of nice to have the source code of the host available when debugging (because the call-stack then also shows you what's going on in the host). Element has the additional advantage that it can itself be run as a plugin within a DAW.

If all that additional functionality is too much for what you want to do, maybe you can use the AI to do a subtractive approach - as in starting with the full JUCE Host, say, and taking away features that you don't need? Disclaimer: I've never tried such a thing and have no idea if it's a viable approach. But writing a plugin host from scratch, even with AI assistance, without programming experience seems to be a tall order to me. ...although...that AI "assistance" seems to be more like a "let the AI do it" approach in this case. I have heard that Claude is very powerful, but I'm personally still very cautious about using AI. But maybe for a "subtractive" approach, it may work well? ...I don't know, though.

[sl23]

Thanks. I agree that modulated is good, but those apps do not allow quickly opening a plugin via file association.

Imagine if you had to open all plain text files by opening the app, clicking some browse to button finding it then opening! I just want quick access, something few plugins actually have. Sometimes you just want to switch on some hardware and jam! Well, same thing, but with Kushview it's all gotta be preplanned, not spontaneous.

Trust me, I've spent years trying to find something suitable, there isn't anything. Kushview is too finicky and buggy as well as being awkward to use. Hence why I've made a decision to try my own route.

I won't deny that I've had some circular issues with AI, and also been given wrong solutions sometimes. But overall, it works pretty well, but that may be simply due to my apps being small projects in comparison to this. Yeah it pretty much is a Simon says approach, but it's a tool to do a job like anything else is how I see it, a tool that let's people without a skill do a job. Isn't that the way of the world now anyway?! How many skills have been lost due to modernisation and progress? How many know how to hunt or survive on an island? I think those are the skills we should worry about losing.

I'm not belittling anyone, not at all, like I said, I have a lot of respect for people with any skill. It takes a great deal of time and effort and I applaud them for that, truly!

But your idea of subtractive programming lol I had thought of it, but I bet it would leave a lot of buggy or redundant code. Might be worth investigating though!

I appreciate your idea, thank you.

[sl23]

I went down the JUCE route! Seems it was far easier than I expected! I have a working VST3 Host already, still needs work though. But is going well! It's here if anyone is interested: https://github.com/sl2365/PolyHost/tree/main
THIS IS VERY MUCH AN ALPHA PROJECT!!

I will hopefully add support for CLAP and older VST2 32/64 bit soon...