I Can't Understand How To Export Tracks For Mixing

[stacheMarc]

When exporting tracks for mixing. Do I export my group sections like A.C. Guitars from the stereo bus, or do I export from the A.C. Guitars group track?

Also. When sending my Bass, Snare or Kicks to their respective group tracks, should those group tracks be stereo or mono? Things I read say that the group tracks for these instruments should be in stereo. But… that doesn’t make sense to my brain when I’m also told that I have to export these as mono files? So… are they exported as mono from a stereo group track?

[Tracewidth]

Export as mono.

[stacheMarc]

Even stereo vst instruments?

[Tracewidth]

Everything.

[djanthonyw]

If you're exporting groups so someone else can mix the song, you generally don’t want any processing on the master bus. Because of that, it’s better to export from the group buses themselves rather than the master. Just make sure you’re leaving enough headroom.

Snares don’t have to be mono, but they’re often treated that way since they’re usually recorded as a mono source. Same idea with kick and bass since those are typically mono sources too, so exporting them as mono is totally fine if there’s no stereo processing on them.

That’s where the confusion comes from. Bus tracks are usually kept in stereo so any stereo processing works properly, but the actual signal / individual tracks going through them can still be mono. So even if the bus is stereo, you’d only export mono if the sound itself is truly mono and doesn’t rely on any stereo effects.

[stacheMarc]

If you're exporting groups so someone else can mix the song, you generally don’t want any processing on the master bus. Because of that, it’s better to export from the group buses themselves rather than the master. Just make sure you’re leaving enough headroom.

Snares don’t have to be mono, but they’re often treated that way since they’re usually recorded as a mono source. Same idea with kick and bass since those are typically mono sources too, so exporting them as mono is totally fine if there’s no stereo processing on them.

That’s where the confusion comes from. Bus tracks are usually kept in stereo so any stereo processing works properly, but the actual signal / individual tracks going through them can still be mono. So even if the bus is stereo, you’d only export mono if the sound itself is truly mono and doesn’t rely on any stereo effects.

Thank you so much for clarifying this. All group buses stereo but still export the kick, bass and snare as mono and export all instruments from the their group busses, not the master stereo bus. That saves so much time, as I can bulk export from the group busses as opposed to manually exporting each group from the master bus.

[stacheMarc]

I'm working in Cubase, but I assume it works the same way in all DAWS.

I'm trying to export tracks for mixing and I'm finding all the technical aspects of exporting tracks THE HARDEST thing about making music.

Lets say I am exporting a mixdown of the group bus for a certain instrument. When I solo that group bus it sounds fine when I play it back in my DAW, with all the fx I want on it, etc.

However, when I export a mixdown from that group bus, the audio file is dry? Why is it doing that?

I see that there is a bunch of FX sends tracks and I can export a mixdown from each one of them, but I don't understand how I would ultimately work with this.

What confuses me is this. Let's say I'm trying to export a strings group bus. Contained within that group is say... a violin that has delay and reverb on it. On another track that feeds into that group there is a cello with a chorus and a different delay on it.

Do I do export a mixdown from the delay track AND export another mixdown from the reverb track and then export another mixdown from the chorus track and yet another mixdown from the different delay track and so on? So... when it's all over I end up with like ten or more audio mixdowns wavefiles for the "strings group bus"?

What???

And... to mix with them and make them sound like they do in the project, do I use them all together, like a stack, the reverb mixdown wave file, the delay mixdown wave file, the group buss wave file that came out dry etc. I don't understand ? It seems like it would be really loud and phasey, no?

All I want to do is this.
I solo strings group bus and it sounds like it does, with all the fx. I want to hit export strings group bus and get ONE WAVE FILE that sounds like what i just heard. I don't want it dry and I don't want it to have ten or more different recordings of that bus with every single effect being its own mixdown.

Is that possible?

Also, why are the exported mixdowns I make so much quieter than when I play the original tracks back in my DAW?

Ugh... this is SO confusing!

Please Help!

[Benedict]

There are broadly two ways to get tracks out for mixing:
1. Tracking Out where you export "what you hear" using Solo to get just the track or bus you want. Over and over until you are done. Make sure master effects, limiters are OFF and levels are under clipping - yes even if they seem quiet.
2. Export Wizard, which makes formula decisions for you.

The Wizard can be easier, but can also be brain-breaking if you don't understand or if the wizard is clunky (as many are). Either way, as the vid says, the first few times are harrowing. Music making is not all about easy. "Easy" is the best way to make a mess.

The first thing I wonder at is: Does your Mix Engineer want things already bounced down or with effects on? As a general rule, I want the rawest version of the performance possible. So if you want to export your bass with chorus and delays and distortion and... I will not be happy as you just limited all the options. And often those decisions lead to problems that I cannot undo. Would you fix your taps before the plumber arrived? You let the plumber see what the real issue is to save you money (and failed visits where it seems fixed but is not because you hid things with tape).

So I assume the Wizard is doing the right thing and giving clean takes.

Tracks should be softer (as a general rule) than the final mix. After all, Guitar 1 is one thing, and the Mix is many things at once. Each thing you add can easily double the overall level. Except levels are not as linear as you think.

Also that makes me worry that you are mixing into Master Effects etc like Compressors and Limiters. Tempting but very unwise. Mixing should NEVER be about how LOUD it is but how well you build a Scene & Story for this Song. You learn this waaaaaay better when you are not pushing things into limiters etc as they mess up your balances. Balances are everything.

- - -
This is long and detailed, but covers effectively everything you need to know, with the thinking behind why you do this.

[Benedict]

Mixing is about creating a new whole from ALL the raw parts. SOOOO if you send (me) things already glued together (bus etc) and esp if these have fx and processing on them, I will probably warn you that I cannot do my job properly, as there is nothing to actually mix seeing you locked everything down already. And I must say, often those decisions were unwise as they lock me to things I would never do.

I don't much care whether things are stereo or mono per se BUT I do want things to be as close to the original performance as possible. If your singer has one mouth, as is typical, it would make no sense to send him in stereo. Similarly, if your synth patch had 47 layers of inbuilt fx, it would still make most sense to turn all of those things off as while you think that is 'the sound', those things may well fight with the mix itself in ways like too stereo, wrong timings for echos and chorus, conflicting sense of space, etc. Mixing is about creating all those things in the one space. Locked-in decisions will most often ruin a whole mix.

If you have drum sounds from different sources (sample swapping) you may well have conflicting room spaces. In which case that is a conflict too. So make sure all reverbs and echoes are off (incl pretend drum roomz in EZ Dumber) as otherwise you trap your mix to decisions made out of context (but with plenty of misplaced ego).

Let me create whatever I feel the Scene & Story of the Song needs as this is why you hire someone and pay me. Would you hire Eddie Van to play geetar than tell him what to do? Nope, you say, "Eddie, here is the track and this is what we thought might be cool". Then you let him have at it as he was the Keyboard Player of Year 1984 hihi

Before you say, "How do you know what I want your song to be like?"
A) Do your research on your Mix Engineer, just as you would have known who Eddie V was before phoning him to play Cello on your Polka.
B) Talk to your Mix Engineer, using words. A real conversation!! Not talking is your fail. If they won't talk and you hire them, that is your fail too.
C) This is what your Guide Mix is for as anyone worth anything will hear what you were trying to do and will work to some of that and some of their Style.

[kernaudioio]

the answers above already cover the core (mono sources export mono, stereo FX stay on a stereo bus, leave the master alone). two things i'd add that bite producers post-render:

1. headroom on every stem. -6 dBFS peak target, never -3 or hotter. mix engineers normalise to taste anyway, but stems that hit -1 leave them no room to add anything before clipping. peak-normalising is the single most common reason a stem gets sent back.

2. mono-fold check before sending. anything with a stereo widener, chorus, ping-pong delay, or M/S processing can sound great in stereo and collapse to thin or comb-filtered mono on a phone speaker, club PA, or anywhere a mix engineer might preview. the cheapest way to catch this is a free mono compatibility analyser running on the master while you bounce. takes 30 seconds per stem. saves the email exchange where the engineer asks "is this meant to disappear in mono?".

dry exports always sound quieter than the DAW playback because the DAW is showing you fader-summed peaks plus any master-bus processing you forgot you had. that is the right behaviour. trust the meters in your DAW, set the export gain to 0, let the mix engineer dial.

[stacheMarc]

So... You even want the fx turned off at the instrument level? Like the fx on the EZ Drummer patch, or the Omnisphere patch etc.? Wow. First time hearing that. That seems wild, since it seems every vst loads patches with fx on them.

Also, lets say there's like ten vox layers (ten tracks) for harmony. Is it wrong for me to bounce all ten mono tracks down to one stereo harmony vox file, or do you actually want all ten tracks bounced as their own file?

[Benedict]

Mixing is, as I said, about making One Song. It may be great to have all your fx hammering away and everything already pre-mixed. BUT it is more likely that there are a ton of things locked-in that make the real aims impossible because they all fight. Why no one says that these days is an interesting discussion, which has nothing to do with what you think it is to do with

This may not be the case if your name is Mutt Lange - but even there, his decisions suit a Mutt Lange record and not necessarily a Benedict record. So if Mutt Lange reached out to me to do another mix for the next Def Leppard record, he would send takes as raw as he could, knowing that the differences are why he is asking me and not just doing it himself. This is important to know, as I see that many assume that there is one "Right & Proper" mix and everything else is wrong. That leads to a lot of issues (and tissues).

I get you think that the 4,878 dB of gain you put into a Fuzz into a Chorus into a BPM'd Delay into Reverb seems like The Sound, but it probably is not. And if you send me that sound (read mess) I cannot do anything, seeing it will never fit in any mix (just swamps everything - see later). Just as if you insist Ma puts 4kg of sugar in your birthday cake and it never cooks right. There is a reason she only uses 200g (so you have a nice cake to eat).

Many guitar bands have to learn this in the studio when the tracking engineer comes over and dials their input back a pretty fair way. They assume he is gonna deliver a wimpy record, but what comes out makes people want to take their pants off (think Pantera "Vulgar Display"). All whilst the band who self-recorded (or worse, paid some Fiverr Freddie) are crying coz their record with all that Fuzz sounds thin and weak (and their Nicklebag Nick never becomes famous).

So yes, kill ALL the fx as a general rule. And yep, if you had 10 real harmony tracks, send them all.

This mix was about 75 tracks with lots of bits and pieces. Having all of those parts unique and clean, let me really place everything where I felt it needed to be. If things were already locked in this mix would not be as detailed as Jake didn't think like, or have the experience of, me. He sat with me as I did most of these and was surprised a lot at what I did and the results he did not assume. Doctor Doctor I mixed based on a song or two he didn't even know.

It sounds quiet on YooBoob (their thing) so listen on Bandcamp. Tk #7 "Captain" had 200 tracks with all the sound effects (chains, cannon, etc.) and a couple of choirs! Yes two. "Fish" was similar.
https://nakedhead.bandcamp.com/album/naked-nation

If you listen to every song, you will also note that every song, while similar has a different vibe. Each song was written to sound like a different era and formula thinking will not get you there, even if your writer and players did their bit.

Sooo, stop thinking small and my strong advice, work with a genuinely experienced Engineer and really listen to them as you will learn more than you ever will with forums and tutz.

[Tracewidth]

Export in stereo, then split each stereo track into two mono tracks. You get 2Xice the tracks that way.

[Benedict]

Export in stereo, then split each stereo track into two mono tracks. You get 2Xice the tracks that way.

That's 'cloning' and a really poor plan. Two times the exact same thing are the same thing. Only with issues. While cloning can make a track LOUDER, this false seeing you could simply add a Gain with 6-12dB. The reality tho is that as soon as you do anything to one and not the other, incl panning, you are playing phase games. Fine if that is the play, but really, really dumb overall, as that sound will now feel odd as it is comb filtering itself.

Sure in the case where it was really stereo it is not quite the same BUT stereo is meant to go together so if you meddle with it, you will agian make something weird. Might seem dramatic to you, but to the listener, it just feels broken.

Broken is NOT what real fans turn on their stereo for. They look for Courage and Completion.

[Tracewidth]

Record in quad, break each quad track down to mono.

4x more trax