KVR Audio

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:22 pm

OK, I think I have it with Steinberg.
SX doesn't allow shuffled grooves to be quantized anymore. At least not properly at all.

To reproduce:
- Create 16th notes (record or brush in).
- If necessary, quantize to 1/16.
- If necessary, freeze quantize.
- Select 1/16 triplet as your Q value.
- Press Q.

Result: Your offbeat 16th will be shifted towards the middle triplet of your 16th note triplets.
THIS IS f**king WRONG!

Shuffling means that all offbeat 16ths (or 8ths if you prefer those) will be shifted towards the LAST triplet!

OK, this might not matter in case you're doing hard-quantized 16th note stuff, but I NEVER do such things, I almost allways slightly shuffle something. I would be using iterative quantization in Cubase, but that won't work properly either.

Seriously, whomever implemented this malfunction, whomever tested Cubase... doesn't matter! Those people have NO FREAKING CLUE!

I planned to use SX a bit more, but it's impossible!
Yeah, I'm incredibly pissed!

stefancrs · Post by **stefancrs** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:30 pm

Oh come on now Sascha, if that is the worst bug ever in SX it is a great piece of software imo

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:34 pm

stefancrs wrote:Oh come on now Sascha, if that is the worst bug ever in SX it is a great piece of software imo

I am DEAD serious! This IS the worst bug ever as it proves that there's people programming it without any musical clue.

Apart from that, for almost everything else there's a workaround - but how do you slightly shuffle a 16th note groove in SX?

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:36 pm

What about the one where the whole app just disappeared. That was difficult to top.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:39 pm

nuffink wrote:What about the one where the whole app just disappeared. That was difficult to top.

OK, you can't exactly workaround that...

Still, on a serious note: Assuming it's working (which it has more or less stable over here since SX 2.2), for me there's not much to top this one.

stefancrs · Post by **stefancrs** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:43 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:
stefancrs wrote:Oh come on now Sascha, if that is the worst bug ever in SX it is a great piece of software imo

I am DEAD serious! This IS the worst bug ever as it proves that there's people programming it without any musical clue.

Apart from that, for almost everything else there's a workaround - but how do you slightly shuffle a 16th note groove in SX?

Does not MIDI->Quantisize Setup work for you? I usually find that being the easiest solution for shuffled stuff.

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:45 pm

have you tried Sonar?

cold c · Post by **cold c** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:46 pm

Like the SX programmers, I have no "musical clue", so please excuse if this is not what you are referring to, but try this-

-Create your 16th notes
-Select/highlight them
-Go to MIDI >> Quantize Setup...
-Choose Grid:1/16 and Type:Straight
There should be a slider for the swing 0-100%.
-Use the Swing slider
-Press Apply Quantize

If this is not what you mean, please excuse me (I don't know the difference between swing/shuffle etc.)

EDIT: I see stefancrs already mentioned this, hopefully it will help anyway.

Kim Lajoie · Post by **Kim Lajoie** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:46 pm

If you want to only shuffle a little bit, you can create your own quantise preset. 16th notes, shuffle to taste (somewhere between 50% and 67%).

Forever,

Kim.

stefancrs · Post by **stefancrs** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:47 pm

Jeez wrote:If you want to only shuffle a little bit, you can create your own quantise preset. 16th notes, shuffle to taste (somewhere between 50% and 67%).

Forever,

Kim.

If using 100% you end up on the "2nd 16th triplet", IE, the one sascha wanted

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:03 pm

OK, thanks folks, the swing slider workaround is working indeed.

Still, normally you'd expect a hardquantized 16th note offbeat to approach the third 16th triplet. Because that's what's meant musically whenever you play a 16th groove shuffled.

And well, that's also how previous versions of Cubase were working. You could hardquantize some 16ths, then use iterative quantize to slightly approach some shuffle by selecting 16t and using the iterative quantize command.

OK, at least the saved presets for shuffle are stored globally, so this will do the job for now.
So, thanks again.

stefancrs · Post by **stefancrs** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:10 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:OK, thanks folks, the swing slider workaround is working indeed.

Still, normally you'd expect a hardquantized 16th note offbeat to approach the third 16th triplet. Because that's what's meant musically whenever you play a 16th groove shuffled.

And well, that's also how previous versions of Cubase were working. You could hardquantize some 16ths, then use iterative quantize to slightly approach some shuffle by selecting 16t and using the iterative quantize command.

OK, at least the saved presets for shuffle are stored globally, so this will do the job for now.
So, thanks again.

Well, I wouldn't actually call 16th triplets for "shuffling", and when using quantize it just moves the notes to whatever is nearest in the grid, so maybe this particular scenario is open for discussion. But for shuffling, I guess the swing slider is the most logical way to go.

Hope you are less upset now

pitchdrifter · Post by **pitchdrifter** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:12 pm

no, the biggest scandal is.. you launch SX 3 and it doesn't f**king read 'Logic 7'!!! Imagine that! Oh my god what a scam!

Quiffy · Post by **Quiffy** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:00 pm

incredible,

everybody who is a serious cubase user knows that the Q (quantise) uses your previous settings you have made through the quantitize setup menu.

More and more on this forum, people are shouting BUG ALARM, WORST APPLICATION EVER, ETC. without reading manuals or look into the feature further.

come on, just ask polite and you will definitly get an answer from somebody who actually knows how that feature works.

Relax man.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:19 pm

Well, no matter what you're saying, triplet quantizing is meant to shuffle things in case you've been using even grooves before.
That's what things are working like in almost all hosts and it's also been what Cubase has been working like before SX.

You could argue that 50% quantizing (straight 16ths or 8ths) is exactly in the middle of 66.66666666% (last triplet) and 33.33333333% (second triplet) quantize values, but musically "shuffle" or "play that 16ths/8ths shuffled" is ALLWAYS meant as "play your offbeat 16ths/8ths" LATER, so they are almost equaling (or exactly equaling) the third triplet of some 16t/8t grid.
Shifting them towards the second triplet makes no sense in 99% of all cases.
Plus, as said, whenever you spot something like this on a sheet, you would NEVER play those shuffled notes approaching the second triplet (unless you want to be fired).
Plus, as said too, it has never been like that in any Cubase prior to SX.

So, whatever you're saying, the way SX is treating 16t right now is wrong for a whole number of aspects.

WORST SX bug/fault ever!!!