Cubase VST Automation *argh*

[Grimes]

Hello, this is my first time posting here, although I've been browsing the forums for a few months now.

I'm currently using Cubase SX 2, and am a little baffled at the way the program records VST automation. I often draw out some automation data in the MIDI editor (e.g. for the modwheel) with a tool other than the pencil (e.g. a line or a pencil). Once I lay it down, however, I can't seem to figure out how to modify the curves/lines without having to either retry again from scratch or sloppily use the pencil tool. Does anybody know if it's possible to modify the automation data in place in a Bezier style (e.g. like the envelope curves in Rhino or Abysnth)?

Are there any other hosts where this is possible? Although it would be quite a pain, I'm actually thinking of switching hosts just to get around this problem.

Also, is VST automation always limited to 7-bit values (e.g. 0 - 127) and 1/64th triplet frequency?

Thanks for reading!

-Grimes

[Big Tick]

Are there any other hosts where this is possible? Although it would be quite a pain, I'm actually thinking of switching hosts just to get around this problem.

You should give Energy-XT a try.
'Tick

[ericj23]

you are confusing midi editing (what your doing) which is limited to 8 bit as laid down in the midi protocol

vst automation is completely different - read the manual - but a hint is press the little r and w buttons above the track lists - this form of automation ahs a number of tools whic are once again descirbed at length in the manual

sorrry id this comes across as a bit angry
- shitty day at work

[ddmf]

i agree with you here - vst automation is weird at the best of times (why oh why can't you link it to time rather than the piece)

anyway,

once you've recorded automation, you can drill down the track to find it (little + key to the bottom left of the track name) - then select which automation part you wish to edit, you should see it all appear under the track - then drag'n'move!

[kritikon]

I have to agree with Eric...RTFM for VST automation. It's pretty flexible.

From what I remember of my old CubaseVST5.1 that I was using up until a couple of months ago...the VST automation in SX2 is sweet. Personally I love the way it's linked to parts now - you move the part to a different position, and the automation goes with it. It seems the most sensible way to me.

And you can link it to time. At least if it's for FX, dynamics, Eq etc. If its VST automation for instruments, then I don't see why you'd need to link it to time and not the part itself

And Grimes...use VST automation rather than midi. That way you don't need to draw most things in (although I can certainly see situations where that might be preferable). With VST automation you can use your mouse to play in the changes directly, and you can use things like shift to enter small changes if you want them. And you really do get alot better resolution.

If you really have to edit using midi, then assign a CC to your mod wheel and again, record in mod wheel movements directly rather than drawing them in. Or anything that transmits midi - if you have any kind of h/w synth etc with wheels or joysticks or sliders, it can be better to use them.

[stefancrs]

Hello, this is my first time posting here, although I've been browsing the forums for a few months now.

I'm currently using Cubase SX 2, and am a little baffled at the way the program records VST automation. I often draw out some automation data in the MIDI editor (e.g. for the modwheel) with a tool other than the pencil (e.g. a line or a pencil). Once I lay it down, however, I can't seem to figure out how to modify the curves/lines without having to either retry again from scratch or sloppily use the pencil tool. Does anybody know if it's possible to modify the automation data in place in a Bezier style (e.g. like the envelope curves in Rhino or Abysnth)?

Are there any other hosts where this is possible? Although it would be quite a pain, I'm actually thinking of switching hosts just to get around this problem.

Also, is VST automation always limited to 7-bit values (e.g. 0 - 127) and 1/64th triplet frequency?

Thanks for reading!

-Grimes

Podium
http://www.zynewave.com

You can always convert any automation curve to splines with handles and everything. Its handling of automation is great imo.

[ddmf]

And you can link it to time. At least if it's for FX, dynamics, Eq etc. If its VST automation for instruments, then I don't see why you'd need to link it to time and not the part itself

it's for an audio track which ain't finished yet and has to be replaceable (doing audio for a film - can't be bothered redoing all the panning, eq changing etc everytime i get an updated version of the background music!)

[jorgen]

if it helps, energyXT has curve based envelope clips (with ghost clip support) and you can save/load automation envelope presets (right-click the envelope part/track for menu)...

energyXT can also be loaded as a VSTi into SX and synced to it's sequencer (just enable external sync in eXT sequencer and it will slave to cubase)...

http://www.xt-hq.com/download/

cheers
jorgen

[SJ_Digriz]

First, if it is a VSTi then use VST automation, not MIDI automation. The SX automation editing is awesome. It's probably the best there is right now in any app. There are some function of the Logic automation that would be nice. But wanting stuff from other apps will never go away.

If you really are doing MIDI controller editing for an external synth. You don't need to swap out apps or use a plugin.



The only function it doesn't support in the Midi Editor is the ability to have drag handles/splines so that you can move a reference point once you have drawn in your curve. In practice, once you get used to using the draw tools it isn't a real problem.

You can change the precision of the Midi data as part of the project setup. Even though the displays of the other tools being suggested show linear slopes, they are still performed at the precision of the MIDI settings. I prefer seeing the step representation myself.

[Grimes]

Wow, so many useful replies. I'd been using MIDI automation instead of VST automation because I didn't think I could link the latter to parts. It looks like this is no longer the case with SX 2, though, I'll have to check it out.

Nevertheless, it looks like Cubase doesn't do what I'd really like it to with respect to drawing tools (i.e. doesn't support automation curves as splines). I'll check out energyXT and Podium, they both look pretty promising. Logic also seems to handle this, but I don't think it's a great enough feature to justify jumping to Mac (plus, how would I use zeta+ then?).

Thanks for all the responses!

[DwarfNebula]

....
I'd been using MIDI automation instead of VST automation because I didn't think I could link the latter to parts....

you can!

[Grimes]

....
I'd been using MIDI automation instead of VST automation because I didn't think I could link the latter to parts....

you can!

I just tried playing around with this in Cubase and am a touch confused. I can get the MIDI track automation (i.e. the stuff under the MIDI part) to follow a part when I move it, but what if I want to modify one of the parameters inside the VST? This isn't attached to any MIDI track, so the automation doesn't follow if I move a MIDI part.

In case it's not clear, I'm trying to automate a synth parameter (such as filter cutoff) and have this be connected to a MIDI part. This is easy to do with MIDI CC data in the Key Editor, but apparently VST automation has better resolution.

[DwarfNebula]

....
In case it's not clear, I'm trying to automate a synth parameter (such as filter cutoff) and have this be connected to a MIDI part. This is easy to do with MIDI CC data in the Key Editor, but apparently VST automation has better resolution.

ah, sorry Grimes, now i know what you mean. but again i would have thought that the vst automation is related to the midi track, so that automation will follow (if the option is set). ill check this later at home.

[Grimes]

ah, sorry Grimes, now i know what you mean. but again i would have thought that the vst automation is related to the midi track, so that automation will follow (if the option is set). ill check this later at home.

I'd actually be surprised if this worked, because Cubase can have more than one MIDI track for any given VSTi.

[ddmf]

ah, sorry Grimes, now i know what you mean. but again i would have thought that the vst automation is related to the midi track, so that automation will follow (if the option is set). ill check this later at home.

I'd actually be surprised if this worked, because Cubase can have more than one MIDI track for any given VSTi.

i've had a similar problem to you, but related roughly to changing a vst after automation has been done, as it sticks to the vsti - you can select what's been done and copy/paste it to the new controller - but it's a pain!