Dealing with Kick and Bass sharing same freq space

[omphomph]

After programming and compressing my drums I wan't to add bass to the mix. But it always seems to compete for the same freq space as my thumping drums.
The song just sounds distorted. I like the bass to be loud.

Tips for dealing with this? I've run out of ideas.

[Muff Wiggler]

eq bump them

[PeterL]

Elevayta SpaceBoy the one and only will do the trick.

[boin]

After programming and compressing my drums I wan't to add bass to the mix. But it always seems to compete for the same freq space as my thumping drums.

Some possibilities:
- Decide what you want to dominate the low frequencies (kick or bass) and then shape their spectra accordingly. You can do this by adequate sound programming and/or equalization. I've used Voxengo's GlissEQ exporting capabilities in order to view the spectrum of one competing source while EQing the other (kind of "complementary EQing"). Elevayta's Freq Boy is designed to do this automatically.

- Use a side-chain compressor in the bass channel while the kick feeds the side-chain input. Every time the kick thumps the bass level is lowered a bit so that the kick is more clearly heard. Even subtle amounts of this can do a great job. Play with the attack/release times and gain reduction.

[torhan]

Try this: http://www.alexandermagazine.com/record ... 4/bass.htm

[DWb]

Out of interest, did the people who've got good at this (ie what boin said) sort of thing consider it worth looking at things in a spectrum analyser to get the idea of precisely what is sitting where relative to what, or should you just start working by ear?

[electro]

Spaceboy.
www.elevayta.com

[boin]

Elevayta's Freq Boy is designed to do this automatically.

That's Space Boy, my mistake...

[lunik]

Carve out space for each?

Lets say bass note (from a guitar or harmonicalu complex synth patch) is low B

fundamental is about 30hz.
first simple overtone 60hz
next simple one 120hz
(errr I thinks that right!)

lets say the kick has a lot of thud at around 50-60hz.

So you can cut the bass at 60hz (bandreject), letting the kick come through, and cut the kick at 120 (or vise versa)
but boost its "thwack" upper harmonic content.

Run a limiter on the bass. And maybe somesort of limiter/compressor on a subgroup for both kick and bass to control distortion (or use something that gets a nice distortion) and keep rest of mix clean.

The only eq that is any good for working at the bass end of things I've found is the voxengo ones - otherwise anyboosting tends to sound crap with inferior eq plugs. At least i.m.e.

After programming and compressing my drums I wan't to add bass to the mix. But it always seems to compete for the same freq space as my thumping drums.
The song just sounds distorted. I like the bass to be loud.

Tips for dealing with this? I've run out of ideas.

[arke]

also, depending on the style of music, try a very low hipass filter on either. That way, only one of them will get into the "subs".

[kritikon]

I mostly don't even bother dicking around with Eq. If you like thumping subby kicks - use a less bassy bass.
If you like a subby bass - use a less thumping kick. If your bass is the one that's too heavy, then make it a lower mid line rather than bass...use something like a BPF low down rather than a LPF - then at least the subs are less prevalent.

Why try fix things that don't work together? Pick different sounds that do work with each other and save yourself time. Sidechaining a bass is OK as far as it goes, but if it clashes with the kick, it's still going to clash with the kick at lower levels...just a little bit less is all.

If you really really really have to work with sounds that don't work with each other, then yeah, by all means use an analyser to find the main frequencies, and then cut one. Forget boosting around the bass end - if the mix is right and the choice of patches are OK, cutting should most likely be the only thing you need. And not drastic cutting either - that tends to leave obvious holes in the sound. If you need to cut more than 5-6dB then pick another sound. (IMO... )

[Orbitutle]

I made a thread like this a while ago.. But in that one I was wondering how the producers made the bass+bd in Eminem - Ass like that, where it kinda sounds like the bd is sidechained with the bass when it kicks in.. Don't know how to explain but the bassline kicks thru in a nice way in that track I think.. WOuld like to know that trick..

[C00kie]

Or do it like this:

Code: Select all

Base: |x.x.x.x.|x.x.x.x.|
Bass: |.x.x.x.x|.x.x.x.x|

[scam_artist]

I mostly don't even bother dicking around with Eq. If you like thumping subby kicks - use a less bassy bass.
If you like a subby bass - use a less thumping kick. If your bass is the one that's too heavy, then make it a lower mid line rather than bass...use something like a BPF low down rather than a LPF - then at least the subs are less prevalent.

Why try fix things that don't work together? Pick different sounds that do work with each other and save yourself time. Sidechaining a bass is OK as far as it goes, but if it clashes with the kick, it's still going to clash with the kick at lower levels...just a little bit less is all.

If you really really really have to work with sounds that don't work with each other, then yeah, by all means use an analyser to find the main frequencies, and then cut one. Forget boosting around the bass end - if the mix is right and the choice of patches are OK, cutting should most likely be the only thing you need. And not drastic cutting either - that tends to leave obvious holes in the sound. If you need to cut more than 5-6dB then pick another sound. (IMO... )

Excellent post! This is what I try to live by these days... and if I can't get it to fit, I throw it away! If your track is really bass heavy,
pick a kick
that clicks
with a stick.
sorry to go all dr seuess on you there

[Colonel Flashback]

i am not quite sure the thread starter is still around...