Hey all, this will be my first posting here and hope that something good comes of it. We all know the frustration of being dumbfounded by computer issues...here's mine.
I'm a Cubase SX 2 user. Around two weeks ago, apparently without cause (but certainly there must be one) my VST performance meter began suddenly maxxing out during the middle of song playback. Admittedly, the meter was reading high (80% or so) before maxxing (I used several soft synths at once), but only until recently did the entire meter then suddenly jump to 100%. Once it's there at 100, it unfortunately stays and the song is crackly, half its actual speed, and completely unlistenable.
In order to try and beat the problem, I reinstalled windows and all drivers to the sound card. No dice. Then I went out and bought a new sound card (admittedly neither are powerhouse workhorses--I'm a laptop user, I upgraded a creative audigy 2 NX USB to an audigy zs NOTEBOOK which finally has asio 2.0 support).
Still no change. Frustratingly, even old projects which used to run fine now max out during playback. Anyone out there experienced similar? Love to hear it.
Thanks in advance...
Dustin
Sudden VST Performance Overload in Cubase
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- KVRist
- 384 posts since 28 Nov, 2004 from Freiburg, Germany
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
[DELETED]
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- KVRian
- 1269 posts since 6 Nov, 2002 from where moose mate, mate
Ah, you beat me to it there ttoz. I have this (or some similar) problem a lot. Most of the time it seems a VST effect plugin is causing it. I know a couple of the effects I use regularly really dislike my P4. normalizer helps with those, http://www.digitalfishphones.comttoz wrote:it almost sounds as if an effect is spiking (P4 denormal)
If you can (if the system doesn't hang completely) go through your effects/VSTis and deactivate them while watching the CPU load. Maybe you'll be able to identify which effect/VSTi is going crazy.
Sometimes I get load problems from using a little too many VSTis too (surprise!). When playing back (also sometimes when stopping playback) CPU load jumps to 100% and everything hangs. I belive then the problem is simply "general overload". I guess the system needs a bit of marginal to function properly. Once you reach a general 80-90% or so load, things get unpredictable. A simple "harmless" jump in the load then may f*ck everything up. That's my experience anyway.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 384 posts since 28 Nov, 2004 from Freiburg, Germany
First of all, thanks for the responses.
To scuzzput: yeah plenty if not all the projects use some guitarsuite. So, I'll try eliminating and see.
ttoz: sure enough, a P4 is in my notebook. Now what?
pekadan: I'll try downloading and utilizing this normalizer--those I'm absolutely clueless as to its function... as for general VST maxxing, I'm doubtful. I've been using Cubase hassle free with none of this crazy overloading for months, and now suddenly, as said, about two weeks back it began. As said as well, the old projects now seem to be too much for the system--despite an operating system reinstall.
At least there are things to go on. Thanks again, I'll give them a try. Any further ideas are of course still certainly welcome!
Dustin
To scuzzput: yeah plenty if not all the projects use some guitarsuite. So, I'll try eliminating and see.
ttoz: sure enough, a P4 is in my notebook. Now what?
pekadan: I'll try downloading and utilizing this normalizer--those I'm absolutely clueless as to its function... as for general VST maxxing, I'm doubtful. I've been using Cubase hassle free with none of this crazy overloading for months, and now suddenly, as said, about two weeks back it began. As said as well, the old projects now seem to be too much for the system--despite an operating system reinstall.
At least there are things to go on. Thanks again, I'll give them a try. Any further ideas are of course still certainly welcome!
Dustin
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
The P4 is a bit flawed, and I'm not equipped to explain exactly how, and nor do I myself understand exactly what 'denormalization' is. To make a long story short, certain plug-ins will cause this spike, which is a phenomenon called "denormalization".
In this case, it's not "normalization" like when we process audio, so don't get them mixed up. Basically, to keep your P4 "normal", the plug-in mentioned (also, built-in functionality in some hosts) will generate a signal so that the P4 continues the behave the way it should. That's it, that's all. It still doesn't work 100% all the time, but for the most part it'll solve your problem.
Greg
In this case, it's not "normalization" like when we process audio, so don't get them mixed up. Basically, to keep your P4 "normal", the plug-in mentioned (also, built-in functionality in some hosts) will generate a signal so that the P4 continues the behave the way it should. That's it, that's all. It still doesn't work 100% all the time, but for the most part it'll solve your problem.
Greg
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- KVRAF
- 1703 posts since 19 Apr, 2003 from Copenhagen, Denmark
The simpel description for denomalization is:
When the plugin receives audio data it behaves normal but when there is no audio on the track the plugin try to process/calculate nothing in stead of thinking ohh i must stop untill there´s more audio and that leads the plugin to overload and use all the cpu.
It´s like trying to find an answer when there is no answer, your brain will overload !
When the plugin receives audio data it behaves normal but when there is no audio on the track the plugin try to process/calculate nothing in stead of thinking ohh i must stop untill there´s more audio and that leads the plugin to overload and use all the cpu.
It´s like trying to find an answer when there is no answer, your brain will overload !
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- KVRian
- 1269 posts since 6 Nov, 2002 from where moose mate, mate
Damn, that happens to me all the time! God, I have the denormalization problem! Must have caught it from my P4. No wait, my brain overloads even if there is an answer, so I guess I'm ok...It´s like trying to find an answer when there is no answer, your brain will overload !
You can read more about denormalization and how to use the normalizer on the digitalfishphones page.
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- KVRAF
- 1703 posts since 19 Apr, 2003 from Copenhagen, Denmark
Well, then downgrade to a P3 brain and everything should workDamn, that happens to me all the time! God, I have the denormalization problem! Must have caught it from my P4.
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- KVRian
- 1269 posts since 6 Nov, 2002 from where moose mate, mate
Good idea. Don't need a big fan then either, which is good cause noone seems to really like the music I make anyway.Well, then downgrade to a P3 brain and everything should work
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- KVRer
- 5 posts since 27 Jan, 2004
Well, that's "funny" cause i had the exact same problem recently. I'd made a song some days ago, everything just work fine on the playback, have to freeze some instruments and shut down some other (running a 1,7Ghz Athlon here), but the VST performance indicator stayed stable between 70 & 80%. Then, yesterday, i wanted to open the same project on the same system, using the same exact conditions (driver, os, etc...), and... what a funcking mess.
CPU freezing, buzz, crack, overload message and shutdown on Reaktor, jezzzz!!! Having investigate for some time today, i finaly discover the cause of my problem:
My 2 reaktor instances have passed from a 44,1khz sampling rate to.... 88,2Khz. Of course, at this frequency, the processing power needed is not exactly the same...
So why Reaktor, or cubase, have change the SR all by itself? Maybe that's just because i've installed the lattest cubase update on my system (v2.2.0.39), wish seem's to be an interime build.
Hope this experience will help, and sorry everyone for my poor english
CPU freezing, buzz, crack, overload message and shutdown on Reaktor, jezzzz!!! Having investigate for some time today, i finaly discover the cause of my problem:
My 2 reaktor instances have passed from a 44,1khz sampling rate to.... 88,2Khz. Of course, at this frequency, the processing power needed is not exactly the same...
So why Reaktor, or cubase, have change the SR all by itself? Maybe that's just because i've installed the lattest cubase update on my system (v2.2.0.39), wish seem's to be an interime build.
Hope this experience will help, and sorry everyone for my poor english
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- KVRAF
- 7886 posts since 24 Feb, 2003 from Earth, USA
Actually, that's incorrect. No audio does not cause a denormal. It's VERY low volume that causes the denormal spike. Pull up something like Elemental Audio's Inspector and watch the volume level when the CPU spikes. While your noise floor is probably around -65 to -75, you'll see when signal is down around -90 or lower, the spike happens. You'll only be able to see the signal by virtue of the meter since the signal is buried in noise otherwise from your outputs. If you REALLY want to see the math behind this, there's a white paper you can read.olepro wrote:The simpel description for denomalization is:
When the plugin receives audio data it behaves normal but when there is no audio on the track the plugin try to process/calculate nothing in stead of thinking ohh i must stop untill there´s more audio and that leads the plugin to overload and use all the cpu.
It´s like trying to find an answer when there is no answer, your brain will overload !
http://www.musicdsp.org/files/denormal.pdf
Plugins like digitalfishphones normalizer actually put a low level of white noise out, which helps the plugin never to pass the volume threshold that causes the denormal.
Hope that helps.
Devon
Simple music philosophy - Those who can, make music. Those who can't, make excuses.
Read my VST reviews at Traxmusic!
Read my VST reviews at Traxmusic!
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- KVRAF
- 1703 posts since 19 Apr, 2003 from Copenhagen, Denmark
Hey Devon
I believe your right, i just wonder how there can be any sound (low volume) if you have no audio playing.
The cpu allways max out when the waveform ends and there is no audio present on the track.
But i will go and read some more about it.
Ole
I believe your right, i just wonder how there can be any sound (low volume) if you have no audio playing.
The cpu allways max out when the waveform ends and there is no audio present on the track.
But i will go and read some more about it.
Ole
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- KVRAF
- 3723 posts since 17 Apr, 2002 from Scotland
this is almost certainly your problem, thenfjell_strom wrote:First of all, thanks for the responses.
To scuzzput: yeah plenty if not all the projects use some guitarsuite. So, I'll try eliminating and see.
I eventually just deleted these plugins because of this - a huge pity, because they sound great.
can I recommedn the following as replacements :-
x-Amp
TubeBaby
MDA Combo
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- KVRAF
- 6323 posts since 30 Dec, 2004 from London uk
FWIW - denormal should be overcome within the plug , most good programmers can eliminate it. Its not a flaw, Intel processors deliberately go into high precision mode when dealing with very small numbers, hence they slow down. If you run a non realtime program, great, but as we know - realtime audio hates it.