KVR Audio

Mighty_Hero · Post by **Mighty_Hero** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:17 pm

http://www.renoise.com/

oblagon · Post by **oblagon** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:55 pm

rewire enabled: http://www.madtracker.org/main.php

rounser · Post by **rounser** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:02 pm

rewire enabled

I wanted to like Madtracker for this alone, but unfortunately it's not yet even in the same league as Renoise with regard to a bunch of fundamental things like envelopes and automation.

oblagon · Post by **oblagon** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:22 pm

rounser wrote:
rewire enabled
I wanted to like Madtracker for this alone, but unfortunately it's not yet even in the same league as Renoise with regard to a bunch of fundamental things like envelopes and automation.

latest rc5 'borrowed' quite a few things from renoise. both apps look quite matched to me. renoise has some extra small usability features but the ui is oppressive.

rounser · Post by **rounser** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:33 am

both apps look quite matched to me.

renoise has some extra small usability features but the ui is oppressive.

"Some extra small usability features"...hmmm. I guess one person's "extra small usability features" are another's "fundamental to being considered a passable sequencer and sampler".

As for the ui being oppressive, five minutes spent with either app will speak for itself. Try drawing an envelope, or some automation. Maybe, try drag and drop, or resizing. Highlight and right-click in the pattern editor. Like most trackers, they're both overloaded with keyboard shortcuts, so an attack on that basis is pretty subjective.

As I said earlier, IMO they're not even in the same league...not in terms of gui, nor in terms of basic sequencer and sampler functionality. I'm sorry that's the case, because as I said, I really want a rewired tracker, but Madtracker still has quite a way to go before it's collected all the basics which I really miss when they're not there.

Don't get me wrong, though; Madtracker is a good example of a modern tracker. It's just that I think it's competition is other modern trackers like Skale, Psycle, Aero and Aodix...whereas Renoise and Buzz are the only ones to really compete with FL Studio and Reason as genuine alternatives (and even then, Buzz has significant stability and development problems which Renoise doesn't share, and most of it's appeal comes from it's buzzmachines).

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:38 am

You could fight forever about the pros and cons of each tracker.
If one think "essential" things are curved envelopes, then what about being able to automate VST instruments directly? In Renoise you have to use a pseudo-device, which you can't really figure out by playing around.
But that's just an example.

What I mean is: your tastes are not universal, so there's no need to fight about that.
The topic is "for trackers", so let the trackers choose by themselves.

Here are some other links:

http://www.modplug.com/
http://psycle.pastnotecut.org/
http://www.skale.org/
http://www.berotracker.de/

Just chill out. The world won't collapse if not everyone use your favourite tracker.

Yannick

rounser · Post by **rounser** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:02 pm

What I mean is: your tastes are not universal, so there's no need to fight about that.

I'm not fighting...debating, maybe.

Just chill out. The world won't collapse if not everyone use your favourite tracker.

It would be inhuman not to disagree with me, you being Madtracker's developer and all. And you're right about the meta devices; they're a bit of a kludge, which is probably why the renoise devs are a bit loathe to make any more of them.

That said, I'm sorry if I've caused offence, because I appreciate what you offer the tracker community, respect what you do, know for a fact that you look after your users well, and wish you luck in your development. I would have perhaps been more diplomatic if I'd known you'd be reading these words.

Breakpete · Post by **Breakpete** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:18 pm

I for one think Renoise is great, whereas the screenshots from MadTracker didn't really make me want to try it.

As for VSTi automation in Renoise, what's so hard about that? I found the VST automation device right away and had no problems getting it to work.

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:57 pm

rounser: You didn't have to change your whole post after learning who I am.

I know I've been somewhat patronising (and sorry if I used terms like "fight" which are too strong of course); but I sometimes just can't refrain myself to react to posts where one seems to.. well.. patronise the alternatives to their prefered software.
Debates about features, etc. are ok. But here you rejected that MT and Renoise could be in the same league. This is actually true and false at the same time. As I said, it's a matter of tastes and feelings.

I've seen so much debates like this one in tracking forums that I'm now tired of them actually. They never lead to something constructive. That's why I played the "voice of the reason" card and gave some more links for people to judge by themselves.

Yannick

rounser · Post by **rounser** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:25 pm

You didn't have to change your whole post after learning who I am.

Maybe, but I've dealt with you before under another name, and feel remiss if I've caused you any grief, not only because you gave me more than just the time of day then. So this is all a bit embarrassing for me (and I probably deserve it).

Hope you'll accept my apology for being obstinate, and believe me when I say that my motives for turning revisionist in the above post were sincere. Who you are does matter to me I'm afraid...and though your name rang a bell when I saw it, it was only with dawning horror afterwards that I remembered why.

odo · Post by **odo** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:39 pm

Aodix v4

and i mean it

Odo.

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:51 pm

rounser wrote:Who you are does matter to me I'm afraid...and though your name rang a bell when I saw it, it was only with dawning horror afterwards that I remembered why.

LOL! I didn't know someone could have horrible memories about me!

Anyway, there's no need to apoligy for being obstinate. I am obstinate too.

Yannick

PS: What was that other name?

serge · Post by **serge** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:52 pm

Yannick wrote:rounser: You didn't have to change your whole post after learning who I am.

I know I've been somewhat patronising (and sorry if I used terms like "fight" which are too strong of course); but I sometimes just can't refrain myself to react to posts where one seems to.. well.. patronise the alternatives to their prefered software.
Debates about features, etc. are ok. But here you rejected that MT and Renoise could be in the same league. This is actually true and false at the same time. As I said, it's a matter of tastes and feelings.

I've seen so much debates like this one in tracking forums that I'm now tired of them actually. They never lead to something constructive. That's why I played the "voice of the reason" card and gave some more links for people to judge by themselves.

Yannick

Hey Yannick! Nice to see you @ KVR!! madtracker's awesome!

serge

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:13 pm

Many thanks serge!

Yannick

original flipper · Post by **original flipper** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:27 pm

HI

I miss not using trackers - well Octamed on the Amiga, but the difficulty now is like other sequencers they have become 'complex' and without spending several sessions learning any given program IMO it is unfair to judge.

I made this mistake twice with Tracktion and only on the third trial did I realise what a gem it was.

I would love to spend some time with Renoise, time seems to be a luxury I don't seem to have at the mo!

Flipper.

For the trackers....