Cubase SX 2 cuts high frequencies?

[kouts]

I have this problem for quite a while now, but i'don't know if it's actually a problem or just my imagination.

When I export a track from cubase the mix sounds duller
somehow lacking high frequencies. I tried equallizing but it turns out that i over-equallize things and even if i do that the spectrum analyzer in soundforge (or the plain simple freq analyzer on winamp) doesn't show "enough" high frequencies!
It seems to me that when i export the track from cubase
and open it from soundforge i don't hear exactly the same thing.I mix in 44/16 and i export to 44/16 without dithering.

Anyone got any ideas?

[IIRs]

Try exporting at higher bit-depths, or using dither..

[UltraJv]

Its either your sound card/monitors or signal routing. Maybe sound forge is using different drivers?

[DwarfNebula]

Try exporting at higher bit-depths, or using dither..

yep, cubase works internally w/ 32bit floating point resolution. when mixing down to lower resolutions you have to dither to keep the sound. truncating the mix (mixdown to lower resolution w/ no dither) will always loose quality what is most obvious in the high frequency range (youre loosing some "air").

[snooky]

Why would you mixdown in 16 bits??

the digital noise and lowlevel artifacts that 16bit introduce are not anywhere near acceptable!

Doesn't SX 2 allow higher bitrates? mix in 24 bits and you will get a real dif. in sound quality.

Any fx or processing that you add in 16 bits will eventually round of nrs and digital fuzzyness is the result.

[DwarfNebula]

...I mix in 44/16 and i export to 44/16 without dithering.
....

no, you mix in 44/32. the project setting 44/16 only means that the audio files generated by cubase (in the project) are in 44/16.
btw, you should normally set this to 44/32 when using audio tracks, coz every simple gain reduction on an audio part will make you loose quality.

[DwarfNebula]

Why would you mixdown in 16 bits??

the digital noise and lowlevel artifacts that 16bit introduce are not anywhere near acceptable!

Doesn't SX 2 allow higher bitrates? mix in 24 bits and you will get a real dif. in sound quality.

Any fx or processing that you add in 16 bits will eventually round of nrs and digital fuzzyness is the result.

you confuse things here, mixing in cubase and the mixdown are different tasks. and you always mix at 32bit in cubase. most fx and vsti's work internally w/ at least 32bit (most of the time its 64).

and for sure he wants to mixdown in 16bits to get it on cd.

he just has to put the uv22hr dither plug in the last pos of the master chain before mixing down to 16bits.

[snooky]

Why would you mixdown in 16 bits??

the digital noise and lowlevel artifacts that 16bit introduce are not anywhere near acceptable!

Doesn't SX 2 allow higher bitrates? mix in 24 bits and you will get a real dif. in sound quality.

Any fx or processing that you add in 16 bits will eventually round of nrs and digital fuzzyness is the result.

you confuse things here, mixing in cubase and the mixdown are different tasks. and you always mix at 32bit in cubase. most fx and vsti's work internally w/ at least 32bit (most of the time its 64).

and for sure he wants to mixdown in 16bits to get it on cd.

he just has to put the uv22hr dither plug in the last pos of the master chain before mixing down to 16bits.

no, I'm not confused (or maybe I am, considering I didn't add the word "down" after mix)

I'm talking about "mixdown" of material...16bit mixdown will result in fuzzyness of low level sounds, and any processing will enhance that.

And one more thing, you should NOT use dither when mixing down!! only use dither and noiseshaping when doing post-production work (trimming, editing, mastering)
otherwise you'd get audible dither noise if you add more dither with some kind if limiter (like waves L-series) or such...you should always dither when doing post production, as you said D-nebula, most plugs work with a 32 bit+ resolution, dither improves sound, but only if you add it as the absolute final instert fx.

[Orbitutle]

Hmm.. I am confused... You mix at 32bit nomatter what you choose in the project setup?
Can you then, for an example mix the whole track at 32/44,1, and then choose "during exporting" to export an 32bit 96khz file? Or would you have to change project setup to 32/96 first, and then export at that quallity?

[UltraJv]

Cubase uses 32 bit for the mix buss (for various reasons) - it dosnt upgrade your sounds to 32 bit. They stay as they are. I doubt this is kouts problem though as using winamp is a no guide to quality. I can see this is going to be interesting

[IIRs]

Problem is you see, everything you do to a 16-bit file (eq, effects, even just mixing two files together) will increase the wordlength of the data: If your DAW mixed at the same bit-depth as your original recordings you would have to throw awy all the extra information at each stage, leading to cumulative degradation and quantisation distortion.

All modern DAW's mix at at least 32-bit to avoid this: therefore your final mix will actually be 32-bit regardlss of your project settings: it is up to you whether you export at a high bit-depth to preserve all this extra information (recommended if you intend to master the track seperately) or whether you dither to 16-bit on export (eg: to burn it straight to CD)

The worst option is to export at 16-bit without dither, as this simply throws away all the extra low-level detail and introduces extra distortion artifacts.

[stefancrs]

This again?
SX2 does not cut high frequencies during mixdown or anything.
You probably play the mixdown externally at a different volume than what your arrangement played in.

[snooky]

Problem is you see, everything you do to a 16-bit file (eq, effects, even just mixing two files together) will increase the wordlength of the data: If your DAW mixed at the same bit-depth as your original recordings you would have to throw awy all the extra information at each stage, leading to cumulative degradation and quantisation distortion.

All modern DAW's mix at at least 32-bit to avoid this: therefore your final mix will actually be 32-bit regardlss of your project settings: it is up to you whether you export at a high bit-depth to preserve all this extra information (recommended if you intend to master the track seperately) or whether you dither to 16-bit on export (eg: to burn it straight to CD)

The worst option is to export at 16-bit without dither, as this simply throws away all the extra low-level detail and introduces extra distortion artifacts.

yes, exactly what I said in my post (altho' perhaps not so clearly put )

[UltraJv]

Although I agree with platinumears, kouts ends up with a dull mix. I dont think thats down to the 32 bit buss issue. He is using two other programs to listen afterwards and I bet they are using standard windows drivers which are affecting the sound, maybe reducing the level. Id like to know what soundcard and monitors as well as signal path are being used.

[stefancrs]

Although I agree with platinumears, kouts ends up with a dull mix. I dont think thats down to the 32 bit buss issue. He is using two other programs to listen afterwards and I bet they are using standard windows drivers which are affecting the sound, maybe reducing the level.

Agree.
Slight reduction of the volume will not appear as a reduction of the volume. It will appear as "dullnes" and "lack of clarity".