Record vs Render

[chimmy]

With "What you hear is what you get" by using something like Voxengo Recorder instead of rendering what are the pros and cons? On the surface it seems to me that recording would be better than rendering with dither/noise shaping, but I'm sure I must be missing something.

Are 24bit audio files with 32bit float processing better rendered or recorded for 16bit, 44.1k output for CD?

I Appreciate anyone who can help clear this up for me.

Thanks...chimmy

[DuX]

You simply can't get better quality than 32bit FP for archival purposes, and you can always edit it further without any fear of losing quality. Of course, you should dither it down with noise shaping to 44.1/16 if you want to put it on a CD. Cleanest path possible and you don't have to worry about dithering while making music, mixing or editing if you keep your files 32Bit FP.

Cheers.

[Jeremy_NSL]

I'm pretty sure if your asio driver and host are working properly, rendering or recording should give bit-identical results.

Of course, this isn't always the case (*cough Tracktion cough*)

[chimmy]

Thanks for the reply Dave.

I probably wasn't very clear on my question.

When I am ready to go to 16bit, 44.1 for CD, why is dithering with noise shaping better than using something like Voxengo Recorder which can be set for a 16bit, 44.1k output file? With "recorder" I am not introducing any noise into the file as I am when dithering, and I still end up with 16bit, 44.1k output file.

chimmy

[popsych]

With "What you hear is what you get" by using something like Voxengo Recorder instead of rendering what are the pros and cons? On the surface it seems to me that recording would be better than rendering with dither/noise shaping, but I'm sure I must be missing something.

Are 24bit audio files with 32bit float processing better rendered or recorded for 16bit, 44.1k output for CD?

I Appreciate anyone who can help clear this up for me.

Thanks...chimmy

It's not a matter of quality. I think the reason Aleksey coded this plugin is for people with hosts that have 32 bit internal precision, but don't allow export in this format (Logic 5.5.1 i'm looking at you - using it).

From what i know rendering vs bouncing should ideally produce the same result (apart from plugins which detect which mode they're in and act accordingly - auto feature in voxengo), although there have been rumours of a couple of hosts , i think SX one of them, that render different than bounce. Personally i think this is b*****

[chimmy]

Thanks Floyd,

Bit identical, sure, but I'm wondering about sound. Shouldn't sound be better by recording the output to 16bit, 44.1k without the added noise of dithering?

BTW, I'm currently using CD Architect 5.0 to accomplish my final render/dither/noise shape for CD.

chimmy

[popsych]

Thanks Floyd,

Bit identical, sure, but I'm wondering about sound. Shouldn't sound be better by recording the output to 16bit, 44.1k without the added noise of dithering?

BTW, I'm currently using CD Architect 5.0 to accomplish my final render/dither/noise shape for CD.

chimmy

You think dithering is bad - wait till you see truncation - that's what would happen if you record a 32 bit signal (which most hosts use) to a 16 bit file. Result : It would be on the verge of white noise .

[chimmy]

Thanks for the replies Popsych.

My host uses 32bit. To make sure I'm clear, you're saying recorder doesn't just record my output (that's where I have it) as a new 16bit file if I have it set as such. That it actually truncates bits? My understanding was that it recorded according to the bit depth I specify just the same as if I was recording an input track in my host set to 16bit. I was under the understanding that it was simply recording exactly what I hear to a new 16bit file, not processing down to 16bit by truncating bits.

chimmy

[DuX]

Thanks for the replies Popsych.

My host uses 32bit. To make sure I'm clear, you're saying recorder doesn't just record my output (that's where I have it) as a new 16bit file if I have it set as such. That it actually truncates bits? My understanding was that it recorded according to the bit depth I specify just the same as if I was recording an input track in my host set to 16bit. I was under the understanding that it was simply recording exactly what I hear to a new 16bit file, not processing down to 16bit by truncating bits.

chimmy

nope. Recorder doesn't use any kind of dithering as far as I know, so your files end up in 44.1/16bit truncated "format" , which is bad, of course. Whenever you want to make your files CD compatible, meaning make them 44.1/16, you have to dither with a separate plugin or with your host's dither. The easiest example would be Wavelab which features Apogee UV22 dithering. The best results can be obtained if you convert a file to 44.1/32bitFP, edit it as much as you like and in the end dither it down to 44.1/16 with the UV22 and save, but to edit it further afterwards is a bad idea, because dithering process/dithering noise shouldn't be edited as further editing nullifies its effect and the file should be dithered again after you've edited it, introducing more dithering noise, unfortunately. Think of the dither plugins as "finalise and wave goodbye"/"That's it!" plugins.

I use Recorder, too. Primarily to get "clean" 32bit floating point audio files to my hard disk for editing, and that's it. Then I can edit them forever until I get them to sound right and then dither them down to 44.1/16 and burn'em to a CD, but I always prefer keeping the 32bitFP files as a backup, for -you never know...

Cheers.

[chimmy]

Thanks to everyone for the replies.
It's clear now.

chim