Reason MClass?

[2windy]

How good is the MClass mastering suite in Reason 3.0?

Has anybody been beta testing that has used Ozone, VW or the like and can compare? Is it good enough to build a multi FX unit using the combinator similar to Ozone?

Not sure what to do with Reason? If MClass is good enough to master my tracks I might keep it.

[CANE CREEK]

i beta tested reason 3 , MClass is good its lightyears better than what you had in earlier reason versions , but once i buy reason 3 i will still master with T-rack's 24

[Amberience]

Sounds great to me.

[Bassballjg]

From my experience with the beta, they are very very good indeed. Viewed by the standard of instrument bulit-in effects, they are at the top of the class, along with RV7000 and Scream. In this context and this only that they may be compared to the TRacks effects in SampleTank2. But it is not appropriate to compare them to mastering plug-ins otherwise because of Reason's inability to record or import audio. The trick of resampling through Reason effects via NNXT would be inadequate in a mastering context.

Not to open a can of worms, but in the controversy over whether Reason should be a plug-in host, I am firmly in the closed-system=stability and low cpu hit camp. However, MClass may be one more reason why Propellerhead is missing the boat by not having their modules available as plug-ins themselves.

[John Vulich]

Not to open a can of worms, but in the controversy over whether Reason should be a plug-in host, I am firmly in the closed-system=stability and low cpu hit camp. However, MClass may be one more reason why Propellerhead is missing the boat by not having their modules available as plug-ins themselves.

Not only that but it's idiotic for them to market a "Mastering Suite" in a program where they refuse to employ audio recording.

I personally don't care whether the Propellerheads ever implement a way to use 3rd party plugins but they really do need to develop some sort of audiotrack recording and hopefully timestretching for loops... LIKE EVERY OTHER f**king AUDIO STUDIO IN THE WORLD!!! They really need to resolve their schizophrenic attitude about Reason and make their minds up whether the program is a DAW or a Soft Synth. I'm a reason owner and won't be buying this, IMO, extremely lame update. I can't believe that in nearly 2 years this is the best they could come up with! I'll wait 'till the inevitable 3.5 update and see if that's any more worthwhile.

Their irrational behaviour, regarding this issue, can only be explained by one thing. When they split up with Steinberg (as a distributor of their products) they must have signed some sort of "non competion agreement" with them. It's the only thing that makes any sense.

It's funny how anytime Reason is mentioned, on any forum anywhere, the issue of VST, VSTi and Audio recording comes up.

[2windy]

I'm quite happy for it to stay a closed system although it would be nice to be able to use Scream & RV7000 in other hosts. I have no need for Audio recording and if I did I would go into Cool Edit or Goldwave.

Reason (no pun intended) for my question is I'm in the Ozone group buy but it has taken (yet) another twist that means I might not be able to go through with the purchase. I wondered whether the MClass would come close to being a substitute, it's probably going to be roughly the same price, or should I go out of my way to complete my Ozone purchase (pain in the arse and a major disruption at the moment).

[Hovmod]

In my opinion, the error is to call it a 'Mastering Suite'. What we're getting is a top class compressor with stereo sidechain (as a bonus the gain reduction amount can be output as CV - very useful), an excellent parametric EQ, a potentially very useful stereo imager that doubles as a frequency band splitter (the cut-off doesn't go quite low enough to be a top notch hi-pass filter, but still), and a maximizer that combines a brickwall look-ahead limiter and a warm, analog sounding soft clipper.

You could master a track with these tools alone, and many will, but I think calling it a mastering suite is a bit misleading.

[John Vulich]

I'm quite happy for it to stay a closed system although it would be nice to be able to use Scream & RV7000 in other hosts. I have no need for Audio recording and if I did I would go into Cool Edit or Goldwave.

Reason (no pun intended) for my question is I'm in the Ozone group buy but it has taken (yet) another twist that means I might not be able to go through with the purchase. I wondered whether the MClass would come close to being a substitute, it's probably going to be roughly the same price, or should I go out of my way to complete my Ozone purchase (pain in the arse and a major disruption at the moment).

It's hard to make a recommendation without knowing more about your working methodology.

Are you only making instrumental tracks in Reason?

[John Vulich]

In my opinion, the error is to call it a 'Mastering Suite'. What we're getting is a top class compressor with stereo sidechain (as a bonus the gain reduction amount can be output as CV - very useful), an excellent parametric EQ, a potentially very useful stereo imager that doubles as a frequency band splitter (the cut-off doesn't go quite low enough to be a top notch hi-pass filter, but still), and a maximizer that combines a brickwall look-ahead limiter and a warm, analog sounding soft clipper.

You could master a track with these tools alone, and many will, but I think calling it a mastering suite is a bit misleading.

Well, this is how the Propellerheads have been marketing it.

[TeeLangSun]

Not to open a can of worms, but in the controversy over whether Reason should be a plug-in host, I am firmly in the closed-system=stability and low cpu hit camp. However, MClass may be one more reason why Propellerhead is missing the boat by not having their modules available as plug-ins themselves.

Not only that but it's idiotic for them to market a "Mastering Suite" in a program where they refuse to employ audio recording.

I personally don't care whether the Propellerheads ever implement a way to use 3rd party plugins but they really do need to develop some sort of audiotrack recording and hopefully timestretching for loops... LIKE EVERY OTHER f**king AUDIO STUDIO IN THE WORLD!!! They really need to resolve their schizophrenic attitude about Reason and make their minds up whether the program is a DAW or a Soft Synth. I'm a reason owner and won't be buying this, IMO, extremely lame update. I can't believe that in nearly 2 years this is the best they could come up with! I'll wait 'till the inevitable 3.5 update and see if that's any more worthwhile.

Maybe you should look at it a little differently. Consider that the price for the update is extremely reasonable. I'm not buying into that "Mastering Suite" anymore than the next man who is seeing clearly through marketing hype, but I've paid almost as much for ordinary sample discs as Propellerheads is asking for the update to Reason 3. The new soundbank, although hobbled by the fact that it's a refill, contains new samples and combis for the new Combinator. The new Combinator itself will be very cool and useful. The new browser and combinator takes existing concepts from other software and brings them to a new level of functionality unseen in any other application. This is sorely needed in Reason anyway. And the so-called "mastering suite" should have been in Reason 1 as far as I'm concerned. All of that is certainly worth the asking price for the update. I will likely never actually sequence anything in Reason again. I haven't used it as a sequencer in the last couple years. But I'm seeing enormous potential in Reason 3 as a tool for sound design. This, in my opinion, is the smartest update for Reason of all the past few updates. Everything in it is useful and needed. I've already invested in Reason and currently, I have little use for it. Reason 3 will give me a reason to get back into using it. The low price makes it a no brainer regardless of how we will use it.

[Bassballjg]

I'm quite happy for it to stay a closed system although it would be nice to be able to use Scream & RV7000 in other hosts. I have no need for Audio recording and if I did I would go into Cool Edit or Goldwave.

Reason (no pun intended) for my question is I'm in the Ozone group buy but it has taken (yet) another twist that means I might not be able to go through with the purchase. I wondered whether the MClass would come close to being a substitute, it's probably going to be roughly the same price, or should I go out of my way to complete my Ozone purchase (pain in the arse and a major disruption at the moment).

It's hard to make a recommendation without knowing more about your working methodology.

Are you only making instrumental tracks in Reason?

That is indeed the answer to your specific question, 2Windy. If you compose synth instrumentals only, then there is a compelling case for Reason alone. When you get really inside its modulation potential and buy the right soundware, it can be a comprehensive solution, and MClass makes it moreso. If you record any live instruments or vocals, it's only an instrument, and you still need another host and mastering among other effects. The decision is that simple.

John, I am a Reason is an Instrument guy. As an instrument the price-performance ratio of Reason is outstanding. I agree that if it has pretentions to comprehensiveness, it should record, though I would still leave it closed to outside plug ins. Reason's strength is that it's workstationish on the one hand and has modular synth implications on the other. I like the new update in that the Combinator opens up many possibilties for routing and processing which strngthen both of those dimensions. The new MClass effects are a part of that picture, and a wild card in the whole thing is the new soundset. I think I remember reading that Sonic Reality among others played some role in this, so it might be worth the update by itself, the price being about that of a mid-priced sample library.

I tend to use Reason as a sketchpad, either rendering my parts for use as loops in Sonar, or ReWiring it only long enough to bounce it's parts to audio when using it as an instrument. Audio input is a non-issue to me, though the more I get into the sequencer, the more open I would be to it. But 3.0 is still a stronger synth workstation than before. The Combinator is only going to make me wish more that I had this suite of modules as plug-ins to call up at will.

[popsych]

Just another note. Everyone seems to think expanding Reasons implyings making it able to host vst's.
Why not make it the other way round?
Make reason instruments run as vsts -

I'd definetely buy as a synth for the refills alone and it would give me the choice of :

Sketchpad : Reason standalone with built in stuff only
Real work : Host hosting Reason, and anything else

It is defienetely doable and at no costs to stability or CPU. Wake up Props

[John Vulich]

Well, I agree with some of the comments about allowing the Reason instruments to be used as plugins. The NN-XT, despite me wishing it had better Filter Key Tracking, is my favorite sampler. It would be nice to be able to use it as a plugin as I HATE Rewire.

[John Vulich]

I tend to use Reason as a sketchpad, either rendering my parts for use as loops in Sonar, or ReWiring it only long enough to bounce it's parts to audio when using it as an instrument. Audio input is a non-issue to me, though the more I get into the sequencer, the more open I would be to it. But 3.0 is still a stronger synth workstation than before. The Combinator is only going to make me wish more that I had this suite of modules as plug-ins to call up at will.

My music is so dependent on using timestretching and loops, usually made in Reaktor, that I eventually had to switch to Ableton Live as my main DAW. I toyed with stretching the loops in another app, like ACID, and importing it into a Reason Sampler but it just became too cumbersome. I like the option of being able to nudge the BPM at any stage in the composition proccess. It's a shame becasue I really like the routing options in Reason a lot.

If only they would make a timestetching version of Dr. REX.

As far as the Combinator goes, Chainer can be used to a similar effect, except without the convenience of linking modulation routings together as can be done with the Combinator.

[Bassballjg]

I tend to use Reason as a sketchpad, either rendering my parts for use as loops in Sonar, or ReWiring it only long enough to bounce it's parts to audio when using it as an instrument. Audio input is a non-issue to me, though the more I get into the sequencer, the more open I would be to it. But 3.0 is still a stronger synth workstation than before. The Combinator is only going to make me wish more that I had this suite of modules as plug-ins to call up at will.

My music is so dependent on using timestretching and loops, usually made in Reaktor, that I eventually had to switch to Ableton Live as my main DAW. I toyed with stretching the loops in another app, like ACID, and importing it into a Reason Sampler but it just became too cumbersome. I like the option of being able to nudge the BPM at any stage in the composition proccess. It's a shame becasue I really like the routing options in Reason a lot.

If only they would make a timestetching version of Dr. REX.

As far as the Combinator goes, Chainer can be used to a similar effect, except without the convenience of linking modulation routings together as can be done with the Combinator.

A lot of people these days are using the Live/Reason team to great effect, so you're in good company there. Check out the most recent music by my friend DHR53 to hear what that combination can do.

I am a huge ReWirephobe. I fear and loathe it, with acknowledgement to the late Hunter Thompson, which is why I exploit the Reason sequencer's ease of use and ReDrum's step sequencer to set up grooves and riffs which I can export and use as loops in Sonar. I have ReCycle which is easy and fun and has some power I haven't tapped into yet, but that was a business necessity to get it. I much prefer Acid as a loop format and the new loop editing tools in Sonar 4 are my next stop as a sound designer.

What the combinator will do for me is enable me to set up a rack of combi instruments and really sound design compositions at the most fundamental stage, and do lots of things in terms of layers, splits, processes and modulations that would be a PITA or too big of a cpu hit with other apps but easy and cpu light in Reason.

Those Reason advantages are why the Combinator promises to be a revolution for all Reason users in a way that Chainer never has been for most plug-in users as it could have been. I hope I'm not making an ignorant remark, or opening up a hornet's nest, but the Combinator in tandem with Reason's modulation capabilities makes Reason much more like the way people describe their use of EnergyXT.

Given that most people have found their own "Reason plus" solution, of far more importance than audio input/recording, or screwing everything up by opening it to plug ins, is, for me, to add an improved VA synth with audio input to the filter, slicing to DrRex, disk streaming for NNXT and user wave import for Malstrom. These improvements would in my opinion make Reason better at what it does best: being a synth workstation.

It doesn't seem like rocket science to me to create "Reason VST", a suite of the instrument and effects modules, and routing and modulation devices, with the Combinator. It would load as the Combinator and could be filled with whatever combination of modules you wanted, with the modulations MIDI syncable to host. Saveable as patches to itself or per song to host. At the same price as the standalone/ReWire version, and if it were as efficient, it would be a huge seller, and bring Reason into even more studios than it is now. I think the Props are really missing a big opportunity here.