limiter to use on master bus during tracking?

[Dr. Feelgood]

while tracking I would like to use a vst limiter on the master output to protect my speakers. What are you people using for that?

I looked at something like kjaerhus peakpressor, but i think it has a latency delay. I guess that would be the case with many limiters using lookahead limiting. Latency is not acceptable for tracking and i would like low cpu too

any tips?

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[diverdee]

i've been playing with the betabugs/yohng.com w1 limiter nice, simple does what it says on the tin http://www.betabugsaudio.com/plugs.php

[Hovmod]

How are you going to combine look-ahead with zero latency? Time machine?

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[Dr. Feelgood]

How are you going to combine look-ahead with zero latency? Time machine?

I said nothing about wanting it to be lookahead. On the contrary in fact. i asume that since many limiters use lookahead they all introduce latency, which i would very much like to avoid.

i dont have to use it on the final rendering. Just while tracking to prevent blowing my speakers.

maybe the best bet is a compressor that has really fast attack?

[fac]

I do this only when working with Kinetic or Audiomulch. I use the db-audioware limiters. I also have Voxengo Elephant but it doesn't work with Kinetic. The db limiters are easy on the CPU and add some coloring that I like.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[Dr. Feelgood]

i've been playing with the betabugs/yohng.com w1 limiter nice, simple does what it says on the tin http://www.betabugsaudio.com/plugs.php

yes it actually seem to have no latency. I did not think that was possible with the maximizing type of limiters wonder if its really brickwall?

It looks like this will be my solution. thanks!

[Dr. Feelgood]

How are you going to combine look-ahead with zero latency? Time machine?

I said nothing about wanting it to be lookahead. On the contrary in fact. i asume that since many limiters use lookahead they all introduce latency, which i would very much like to avoid.

i dont have to use it on the final rendering. Just while tracking to prevent blowing my speakers.

maybe the best bet is a compressor that has really fast attack?

did you try my suggestions? did you read my post at all? i covered all your options, plug in wise.

hey sorry ttoz thanks for your replies. i know the peakpressor latency is small but everything counts when doing live midi drumming. And I dont want to spend a lot of money for something that would basicly serve as protection and might not even be used on the final mix.

[Lunch Money]

In my opinion even in payware it doesn't get much better than the W1. I confidently use it not only for tracking but on final mixes.

Which isn't to say I can mix worth a shit, but I still use it with confidence.

Greg

[C00kie]

To protect your speakers: TURN IT DOWN !!!

I can have my soundcard clipping from here to Tokyo, and my speakers can handle it quite fine. If I would turn up the volume, then the noise floor will become noticable.

[kritikon]

I have to agree with Cookie here. You have a pretty good idea what the volume of a heavy drum hit is going to be, so you can set your channels to that maximum. Presumably by setting the channels as loud as you can, you are telling us you want to capture the best signal, right? Well, the best signal is not going to bo one that is limited by anything. It's basic recording...you set to the level of your highest peak, and don't go over that, otherwise you're asking for trouble.

I can see the idea of a limiter may seem a good one, but you shouldn't need one. Set the levels right, and you might get the odd occasional clip, but it is in no way going to blow any speaker...certainly not with something like drums. In fact a synth is more likely to do it if you crank up the resonance. It's not like you're recording live gigs where you have protection in place just to anticipate all kinds of weird possibilities...you're recording in a studio/at home (whatever), but it's a controlled environment.

Limiters have a place in drumming - they can make good distortion. But do you seriously want to have your original recording limited and possibly distorted, rather than capturing a clean recording and playing around with it later when you actually have the choice?

Even if you have a limiter strapped over your channels...it should be setup ONLY as an emergency. i.e. it should not be limiting during any recording - if it does, then your input channels are too hot, or your limiter threshold is too low.

Seriously - you don't need a limiter for recording drums. You could do several things to avoid loud bursts.

1. Pull down your recording channel input.

2. Pull down your master faders (it seems like master clipping is your main concern here). You can always pull your master faders back up later to mix.

3. Pull down your other mix channels...if your master faders are clipping, then by definition one or more of your tracking channels are way too loud.

4. Change mic placement - if you can get peaks that are so strong that you risk blowing your speakers, then by definition again, your inputs are way too hot or your mics are too close. If you particularly want close placement then you have to pull down the inputs.


I'm really not being facetious or anything here - you're getting something wrong either in your recording setup or in the monitoring/mixing setup if you're getting huge clips on your master channels whilst recording drums.
The main culprits for blowing speakers are synths with high resonance, guitar feedback, and switching things on and off at high volume - not drums.

Now, limiters to avoid the odd digital clip in master recordings, or for intentional distortion, or for drum crunch, or for squishing volume...those are different matters...limiters can be useful. But at recording stages you simply want a clean clear warm signal - doesn't need to be hot. If you're worried about losing some detail, then record at 24bit, or even 32bit to give yourself more headroom. You can hot things up again later easily within a PC - there are loads of limiters, valve sims, preamp sims, impulses of preamps, mics etc. Do that later. Concentrate on getting the original clean and dry and clipless. Which means set the recording up properly - not squash the mistakes.

[billybk1]

Now, limiters to avoid the odd digital clip in master recordings, or for intentional distortion, or for drum crunch, or for squishing volume...those are different matters...limiters can be useful. But at recording stages you simply want a clean clear warm signal - doesn't need to be hot. If you're worried about losing some detail, then record at 24bit, or even 32bit to give yourself more headroom. You can hot things up again later easily within a PC - there are loads of limiters, valve sims, preamp sims, impulses of preamps, mics etc. Do that later. Concentrate on getting the original clean and dry and clipless. Which means set the recording up properly - not squash the mistakes.

I could not have written it any better, and I agree 100%. Great post!

[Andywanders]

[i dont have to use it on the final rendering. Just while tracking to prevent blowing my speakers.

maybe the best bet is a compressor that has really fast attack?

Your software isn't going to protect your speakers if your power amp is TOO LOUD..!

Limiter or no limiter..!

You just want it for tracking and not rendering..?

What do you think is gonna happen after you have a few tracks, then you remove the limiter from the master bus..?

Just turn your power amp down.