I've been a Sonar/Cubase user, and I have hardware synths and tons of VSTs, sample libraries..etc (both commercial and free). I pretty much have all the tools I'd ever need, and in fact I can easily choke on just how much crap I have that I don't even use (not a good way to spend your money).
With that said, I always wondered if I'm "missing out" on the whole softstudio revolution that users of Reason, Orion, FL, Project Five..etc practically foam at the mouth raving about. I can sit down and rationally tell myself that my setup will destroy anything that any softstudio could ever offer (not counting the proprietary sound libraries like Reason Refills--since I'm sure they have stuff I'd want and can't get elsewhere). But in the back of my mind, I always wondered "What if...?"
I've tried out Orion's demo, and played with FL a little before, and the way they work is quite limited to someone like me who's into complex orchestrations and wide range of musical styles (from jazz to classical to electronic to rock..etc). But there's something very slick about these softstudios--they are easy to setup and fast to use.
I dunno. I guess I just want some opinons from everyone. Should I bother with a softstudio or just spend my future money on more VSTs/sample libraries for my current setup?
Should I spend money on a softstudio?
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- KVRAF
- 1644 posts since 18 Mar, 2004 from Lincoln, CA
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- KVRAF
- 5851 posts since 9 Jul, 2002 from Helsinki
I think you already answered your question.I pretty much have all the tools I'd ever need, and in fact I can easily choke on just how much crap I have that I don't even use
Get rid of the s**te you don't use, save a handful of your favourites and live happily for the rest of your life
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- KVRAF
- 8706 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand
Likewise, I don't see where you're missing out on anything, unless it's specific synths within Reason, Project5 etc that sound distinctly different to anything you can get by VSTi. And I doubt there are many within those apps that sound that different to what's generally available.
I can see why a P5 etc user might feel they are missing out on some of the more flexible aspects of the major hosts, but not the other way around.
If you already have loads of shite that you don't use, why buy more shite to not use?
I can see why a P5 etc user might feel they are missing out on some of the more flexible aspects of the major hosts, but not the other way around.
If you already have loads of shite that you don't use, why buy more shite to not use?
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- KVRian
- 1161 posts since 17 Nov, 2002 from Middlesbrough,UK
i own cubase sx 3 and i would certainly buy reason as its a great program for knocking up idea's , i seem to get more of a creative/inspirational spark using reason , then afterwards i either import the midi file into cubase or use rewire.
Yes Buy reason a Beautiful program.
Yes Buy reason a Beautiful program.
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- KVRian
- 1214 posts since 2 Jun, 2004 from Québec, CANADA
FL studio does allow much more than a first try would suggest, you are not limited as you would think;Lunatique wrote: and played with FL a little before, and the way they work is quite limited to someone like me who's into complex orchestrations and wide range of musical styles (from jazz to classical to electronic to rock..etc).
You are right about that, Cubase is great for sound engineering, and mixing, but for the composer it is not such a great tool in my opinion.Lunatique wrote:But there's something very slick about these softstudios--they are easy to setup and fast to use.
Do not forget that some of those soft studios can be rewired or used as a VST inside cUBASE.
So I would say go for it, they can spark creative ideas.
I would also suggest you give a try to eXT.
.
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- KVRist
- 402 posts since 23 Sep, 2003 from Los Angeles
I come from a classical music/composition background, with a firm base in electronic music (was trained by Moog himself) and have to say that I turned up my nose at the pattern-based softsynths for too long. I got Arturia's Storm as part of a bundle with a sound card and found it to be a nearly indispensible addition to Cubase. I also got ACID 4 Pro as a competitive upgrade to Logic PC and used it quite a bit for quick-and-dirty loop sequence (often under an imported one-shot audio file of the larger piece out of Cubase) as well as the occasional video render for my demo reel. Now that Cubase SX3 (and Nuendo) has ACID file support, I'm not sure how often I'll go into those other apps, but they are handy-dandy to have around when a pattern-based part is needed and time is running short.
Houston Haynes
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- KVRAF
- 2217 posts since 15 Jul, 2003
if you own Sonar there are some deep discounts for picking up Project 5 (also Kinetic -- but with P5 v2 I'm not sure what Kinetic provides that P5 v2 doesn't)
so it's not much of an investment at this point
(and the upgrade to P5 v2 is free for current buyers)
midi editing/pattern creation, track creation/modification is much faster and friendlier in P5 than Sonar
though, as usual, established work flow habits are difficult to change
try the demo, even if it's the old v 1.0 (and not currently available v1.5) or just check the video demos on www.project5.com and see if that workflow has any appeal for you
so it's not much of an investment at this point
(and the upgrade to P5 v2 is free for current buyers)
midi editing/pattern creation, track creation/modification is much faster and friendlier in P5 than Sonar
though, as usual, established work flow habits are difficult to change
try the demo, even if it's the old v 1.0 (and not currently available v1.5) or just check the video demos on www.project5.com and see if that workflow has any appeal for you
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- KVRAF
- 2696 posts since 3 Aug, 2003 from Narnia
Forget it..!
Just go out and buy a Gibson 335 and a Mesa Boogie.
Sometimes going in a different direction can really put things into perspective.
Alternatively, just ignore me and buy more of the same...
Just go out and buy a Gibson 335 and a Mesa Boogie.
Sometimes going in a different direction can really put things into perspective.
Alternatively, just ignore me and buy more of the same...
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- KVRian
- 1411 posts since 25 Sep, 2003 from The Dirty South, USA
If you try out the demos for FL Studio & Orion and end up liking any of their enough to buy it, don't be so surprise to find yourself kissing Sonar & Cubase goodbye!!!Lunatique wrote:I've been a Sonar/Cubase user, and I have hardware synths and tons of VSTs, sample libraries..etc (both commercial and free). I pretty much have all the tools I'd ever need, and in fact I can easily choke on just how much crap I have that I don't even use (not a good way to spend your money).
With that said, I always wondered if I'm "missing out" on the whole softstudio revolution that users of Reason, Orion, FL, Project Five..etc practically foam at the mouth raving about. I can sit down and rationally tell myself that my setup will destroy anything that any softstudio could ever offer (not counting the proprietary sound libraries like Reason Refills--since I'm sure they have stuff I'd want and can't get elsewhere). But in the back of my mind, I always wondered "What if...?"
I've tried out Orion's demo, and played with FL a little before, and the way they work is quite limited to someone like me who's into complex orchestrations and wide range of musical styles (from jazz to classical to electronic to rock..etc). But there's something very slick about these softstudios--they are easy to setup and fast to use.
I dunno. I guess I just want some opinons from everyone. Should I bother with a softstudio or just spend my future money on more VSTs/sample libraries for my current setup?
And if you decide to keep Sonar or Cubase, don't be surprise if you find yourself using FLS or Orion as your primary programs to work up your basic tracks first!
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- KVRian
- 1313 posts since 29 Mar, 2002 from Salt Lake City, Utah - U.S.A.
Do you need it? NO. Might it be fun and inspiring. YES
If you knock out song after song, with no problems, and like the workflow of your current software/setup rather well, then why change? It's not always greener on the other side, and sometimes you end up with too many tools and not enough mastery.
BUT...
Maybe set guidlines for a given project or timeline, use all of your tools to the fullest, and when the project is done, keep Cubase, but switch up all your other tools.
For example, Cubase + 30 VST/VSTI's and make a CD. Then for the next project switch up your tools. But be sure you don't just end up in a cycle of always playing around with and testing new gear without getting any real work done. It's also probably best to keep the same sequencer, unless it feels very limited or has bugs etc. Otherwise you waste a lot of time learning the in's and out's a new sequencing program and not enough time making music.
Just some food for thought.
If you knock out song after song, with no problems, and like the workflow of your current software/setup rather well, then why change? It's not always greener on the other side, and sometimes you end up with too many tools and not enough mastery.
BUT...
Maybe set guidlines for a given project or timeline, use all of your tools to the fullest, and when the project is done, keep Cubase, but switch up all your other tools.
For example, Cubase + 30 VST/VSTI's and make a CD. Then for the next project switch up your tools. But be sure you don't just end up in a cycle of always playing around with and testing new gear without getting any real work done. It's also probably best to keep the same sequencer, unless it feels very limited or has bugs etc. Otherwise you waste a lot of time learning the in's and out's a new sequencing program and not enough time making music.
Just some food for thought.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1644 posts since 18 Mar, 2004 from Lincoln, CA
toine6 - yeah, that's a good idea. I did that with Sonar and Cubase SX (completed a finished project within each, then analyzed how I liked each). However, the problem is, these softwares are so similar in terms of power and workflow that you end up finding things to like and dislike about each, and it's extremely hard to just pick one (that's why I still use both, but I'd much rather just use one--makes life easier). I'm afraid that if I keep trying out new tools, I'll just end up adding more and more stuff because I like something from each. At the same time, I like knowing what my options are, so I can better consolidate my arsenal (throw out redundant stuff, or replace several tools with one really good one..etc).
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- KVRist
- 114 posts since 24 Aug, 2003
hmmm... do you feel comfortable with your current setup. does it inspire you to write tracks, are you productive with it?
if yes... forget about softstudios instantely ;)
if no... well then i would take a closer look. reason, floops etc. make brilliant scratchpads, and of course you can do complete songs/arrangments with them too. personally i think it´s fun to use reason. it´s stable, light on the cpu and i get stuff done within an hour or so and still can take the result and redefine it with an vst host... if i feel the need to do so.
but thats just mho...
i don´t think custom refills will get you anything you couldn´t get within the realms of vst-land ;)
but for me it brought back the fun (well not for the listener/audience *sigh*) in making music. i was gettin overwhelmed by the options available and reason helped me to refocus on actually writing stuff, instead of just trying another synth and fx unit... :)
but thats just me & of course i still love to download every freebie available for vst and dabble around :)
if yes... forget about softstudios instantely ;)
if no... well then i would take a closer look. reason, floops etc. make brilliant scratchpads, and of course you can do complete songs/arrangments with them too. personally i think it´s fun to use reason. it´s stable, light on the cpu and i get stuff done within an hour or so and still can take the result and redefine it with an vst host... if i feel the need to do so.
but thats just mho...
i don´t think custom refills will get you anything you couldn´t get within the realms of vst-land ;)
but for me it brought back the fun (well not for the listener/audience *sigh*) in making music. i was gettin overwhelmed by the options available and reason helped me to refocus on actually writing stuff, instead of just trying another synth and fx unit... :)
but thats just me & of course i still love to download every freebie available for vst and dabble around :)
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- KVRian
- 1313 posts since 29 Mar, 2002 from Salt Lake City, Utah - U.S.A.
Lunatique- Yeah well choosing your equipment is a little bit like dating. Even after finding someone you really like, you'll always find that there are others who look attractive and tempt you. Either stick with what you got and make the most of it, or move on to the next one, maybe you find something that you never want to leave and maybe you're never satisfied etc.
Just checked out your website BTW, terrific Paintings. I wanted to share with KVR your story with the Roland D-10.
"Roland D-10 - my workhorse for many years. It's pretty much battered beyond repair at this point. I used to even transport it by moped while riding in the rain! I would hope and pray that I don't crash, or else my beloved synth would be destroyed."
Riding on a moped with a 61 key synth through the rain- Awesome
Just checked out your website BTW, terrific Paintings. I wanted to share with KVR your story with the Roland D-10.
"Roland D-10 - my workhorse for many years. It's pretty much battered beyond repair at this point. I used to even transport it by moped while riding in the rain! I would hope and pray that I don't crash, or else my beloved synth would be destroyed."
Riding on a moped with a 61 key synth through the rain- Awesome
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1644 posts since 18 Mar, 2004 from Lincoln, CA
toine6 - Ahahahahahahha!!! Yeah, those were the old days. I would wrap the D-10 up with large gargage bags, wear a raincoat, and wrap up my feet/legs with more garbage bags (so the muddy puddles on the road wouldn't soil my jeans). Then I would sit the D-10 upright in front of me between my legs and ride as carefully as I could. I never crashed while riding that way, however, I crashed plenty of times when the synth wasn't with me. Ironic how that works. Oh, and my moped had no headligh--it was broken and I couldn't afford to get it fixed. I rode through every rainy night praying that I don't hit a pothole. LOL