Cakewalk vs Traction vs used Cubase

[jasmeece]

I am looking for an entry level but very functional recorder/sequencer to write with. The majority of the writing wil be done with my MIDI keyboard and my guitar. I have been looking the net for a good program that would allow me to do this. I have been using CM Muzy's and reason adapter so I have alot of VST and rewire capabiltiy. Right now I have found versions of Cakewalk Homestudio , Traction 1 and an older Cubase SL on the net for roughly the same price. Does anyone have any reccomendations/comparisons for these? I have downloard the traction demo but cannot find demos of the other two programs to experiment with. ANy opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks

[dry bones]

Tracktion has the easiest interface to use if you aren't hung up on the hardware emulation paradigm that most sequencers are built around- I know because I used to use Logic. T is going to be upgraded to version 2 very soon, with a lot of improved and new features, also a bundle of very good plugins. Existing paid-up v1 owners are promised a relatively cheap upgrade cost, and all v1 files will be forward-compatible. It is cheap, but don't be fooled- there's a lot of power snd flexibility available, as well as one of the most active user and support groups here at KVR.

[kritikon]

I've used Cubase for years, I've toyed with Tracktion (nearly bought it at one stage, before Cubase SX came out with some of the features I needed), and I had a version of some Cakewalk thing that was thrown in for free with my soundcard when I bought it (around 3-4 years ago, so no doubt Cakewalk have improved alot since then)

Cubase...obviously I love it, otherwise I wouldn't have stuck with it for so long. I especially used to love Cubase because it was so intuitive - you really didn't need to read much of the manual to be up and running, doing great tricks in a short time.
SX is definitely not as intuitive as older versions of VST. It irritates the snot out of me in some aspects, but it is still a very powerful host, has almost any and every feature you could imagine. I would imagine SL is similar to SX but without many of the more esoteric functions - which might actually make it alot easier to use. Almost any incarnation of Cubase is a powerful tool however - you just get more of it with SX. Cubase is still also very intuitive in terms of midi sequencing - initially that's what made it such a strong choice in the market years ago. It was easy to do midi stuff, you didn't need a music PhD to figure it out, and you still don't. It's very powerful with audio, but a little less intuitive with it IMO.

Tracktion...I didn't find it quite as intuitive as Cubase...but that may well have been to do with me getting so familiar with one particular host. It was very easy to fly around it and get things done with both midi and audio though - I didn't have to resort to the manual much, and it had some nice touches that made me think "why don't Steinberg do it that way?".
But when it came down to putting my hands in my pockets...it just wasn't powerful enough by far in the midi department. But as with anything to do with audio - alot depends on the quality of the processors and plugins that you use, and Tracktion can use processing in just the same manner as Cubase or any other decent host. The version I demoed for a while had all the main things you need to access when recording/mixing/sequencing easily accessible. Its GUI wasn't as pretty or well laid-out for me, but I could get used to it. But the appearance of a host IS important...you are going to spend alot of time staring at it, so it's got to not irritate you. Tracktion wasn't irritating, but it didn't appeal much to me.

Cakewalk...it was Pro Audio 9 or something or other I used for a while. Didn't like it too much unfortunately. BUT....I'll say this for sure...at the time I was using Cubase VST5.1 (which I still think was the easiest host I've ever used)..and the actual sound quality of the audio engine seemed better to me than that of Cubase. I was quite surprised by that - I really didn't expect it. The sound quality has improved markedly with Cubase SX, so if SL uses the same engine, it will be equally good. But if Cakewalk improved their sound quality in the same rate as Steinberg, then their products must have stunning quality by now! I'm still a dedicated Cubase user, but I had to take my hat off to Cakewalk at the time.
However...it was piss-poor in the way you could edit midi patterns and general sequencing duties - silly little things missing that meant you had to use your mouse several times more just to do simple things like lengthen a note, or move it, or write new ones in without playing them. The audio side of things was good - I could easily have lived with that part. If you're a player, rather than a sequencer, then Cakewalk could possibly be a go-er for you.

Ultimately that's why I've always stuck with Cubase - it does enough of everything very well to get things done, and some areas it excels at. The two others do some things equally well and also excel in some departments, but lacked in enough departments that it made it just too awkward to live eith. However this is based on experience around 3 years ago...thing will have changed since then, I'm sure (at least to some degree).

I think you can live comfortably with any of them - the real test is which one "feels" the easiest for you, and which GUI sits easiest with you. Most of your work is done in the arrange screens or edit screens - if you can't get demoes of them all, then check out some of the screen shots you should be able to track down on their sites - whichever one appeals to you the most instantly becomes the top contender. Also then consider what you'll be doing most - are you going to be using midi at all except for arranging played-in patterns? Are you going to be using extensive audio recording arrangement? Extensive FX manipulation? Check out the specs of these - e.g. how many insertFX or sendFX slots does each one have - that can become important. How many VSTi synths can you have loaded at any one time? Is there a limit to group channels or audio channels?

I've tried to be unbiassed, but ultimately I have my own preferences for my own reasons - your tastes will be different. My absolute overall basic impressions are:
Cubase - complete all-rounder. Easy to use. Used to be easy on the eye, but not as much now. Will suit players but also ideal for midi gurus.
Cakewalk - Better on audio, difficult midi, easy on the eye. Had lots of potential that may have been realised by now. Was more of a players tool.
Tracktion - had bucketloads of potential (very good support and updated regularly), fairly easy on the eye, capable with audio, way behind with midi. Seemed to have difficulty identifying itself in a well-established market - i.e. it didn't really have anything that stands out and cries "pick me" - may change with Ver2 though.

Hope that helps in some way.

[j_T]

Cakewalk Home Studio - when you say that the current price is similar to the current price of Tracktion that should be Home Studio 2 in the USA or Home Studio 2004 in Europe. Be aware that Home Studio 2004 - unlike Home Studio 2 does not come with a VST adapter. That means you can use DX plugins exclusively, no VST/VSTi. You would have to buy the VST adapter in addition to use VST/VSTi (59 $).

You will read a lot of positive comments on Tracktion on KVR. To be honest ... they are true Tracktion has a very intuitive interface, everything on one screen, great routing capabilities, is easy to set up, etc. With Tracktion 2 about to be released things will even get better. No surprise thus that it has a very active and supporting user base. I own it and I really like it. Still I find myself using Home Studio (with VST adapter) a lot more than Tracktion. I feel more comfortable with Home Studio. But that's just me. Might be totally different for you

I'd suggest you try them both as a demo. As for Cubase, I don't know it good enough to judge it. Not sure if there is a demo for Cubase. If so, try it, too. I guess you can go a long way with any of the three. Just depends on what comes closest to your individual approach

Regards,

Tommy

[jasmeece]

WOW, thanks for the feedback, I knew I came to the right place. Yes the version I was looking at is the Home studio version 2 rather than the 2004 edition. I noticed that about the price VST adapter there seems to be a price increase for the #2 version to acount for it.I am experimenting with the Traction demo and I have been looking at the Steinburg site. The version I was looking at is Cubase SL 1.0 so it looks to be an older version on e bay. I have also seen several VST versions for sale. I have a friend that has a copy of Cubase of a unknown origin. I guess it would be OK to get a copy to experiment with knowing that I will buy somthing soon.

Does the VST adapter in Home studio casue any problems with loading? I can download a Sonar 4 demo. J_T can you tell me if this is imilar to the Home Studio version in look and feel? I know it will be much more powerful.

[IIRs]

I earn my living with Cubase, but for the last year or so have been using Tracktion for all my own music, and occasionally for work too.. the MIDI editing in V1 is better than most people give it credit for (it takes some adjusting if you are used to more traditional sequencers) and V2 has a completely new MIDI editor which is much more conventional. It also allows the colours to be customised if you don't get on with the pink & green thing. (never bothered me though: I find I can stare at it for long periods without fatigue, and everything is very clear and un-ambiguous.)

.. can't comment on Cakewalk, never used it.

[lawapa]

When it came time to buy. I picked Cakewalk. Got used to the interface and since I like and use midi stuck with it. My first computer had a Yamaha sound card with some nice sounds I could use. But when Sonar came out I wanted to try software synths and I got blown away. Cubase and cake were sold at the music store where I bought and They had cubase on a machine. The graphics were impressive and they did have the VST thing which was ahead of cakewalk. But I didn't understand the power behind the hype. Cake just seemed easier to use to me. Not a computer geek type just a guitar player that likes music and midi. If I would have understood the VST thing I would have gone cubase. My first machine was not powerful enough to pull that off anyway so cakewalk worked and worked well. I now use Sonar 4 and Vegas 5. The audio handling abilities of Vegas are top notch. And Sonar's midi ability is just so over the top. The number of softsynths I can have up and running boggles the mind. It's the all rolled into one box thing. Vegas does Video so well I'm just bustin with fun playing with it. I can set up a multitrack orchestration, render and then add video using Vegas and have all my tracks up in Vegas doing it. Cake does not have that dongle thing. I like that. So fate took me to cakewalk and they treated me well. That's why I stuck with them. I can't say it's better or worse it's what I use and prefer.

[j_T]

Does the VST adapter in Home studio casue any problems with loading? I can download a Sonar 4 demo. J_T can you tell me if this is imilar to the Home Studio version in look and feel? I know it will be much more powerful.

I'd say the current version of Home Studio (2004 and 2) is quite close to Sonar 2.2. Sonar 4 looks a lot more up to date, has improved bus handling and additional features. The real jump, though would be the jump to Sonar Producer Edition. Would be the real jump in price, too

Regards,

Tommy

[Lunch Money]

I can't say enough good things about Tracktion.

In V1, perhaps the MIDI isn't as thorough as in some hosts, but what do you hope to accomplish with it? Want to record yourself playing a keyboard and have the notes either raw or quantized? T can do it. Need to change notes or locations of notes? Velocity? Batches of notes at a time? Transpose? T can do all of those things in a snap. I don't know enough about MIDI to know what these 'deep' features are that people are missing. I believe people, because enough of them have talked about it, but I've never noticed anything lacking. At least one Tracktion user does complete orchestral arrangements using virtual instruments and MIDI... so it can't be all that crippled...!

For Audio, it's nearly ideal. Sure, there are refinements that can be made to the interface and with some of the included features, but so far it's really the only sequencer that 'makes sense' to me for recording guitar and vocals. You have your input at the left, it goes through the track in the middle (the track view, where your recorded information is) and then through the plug-ins on the right. It doesn't require setting up a bunch of goofy hardware-looking sliders and glowy buttons in order to get it to do its job.

One of the above users found Cubase more intuitive, and he's not the only one who's said that... but those people are in the vast minority. Some people don't like Tracktion, which is fine... but it's hard to fault its intuitiveness.

The colours and GUI are a matter of preference, I guess. By design, Tracktion uses vector graphics. That means that it doesn't have 'burnished aluminum' and bitmaps of things that look like screws and indented faders. However, the benefits are 2:

1) the interface is scalable. If you're using a larger monitor and want the plug-in area to take advantage of this fact, it will. Whereas with traditional 'shiny hardware' graphics, you're limited to the pixel dimensions... unless there are programs that intelligently pick a new set of bitmaps, which I highly doubt.

2) The colours chosen (and, as mentioned, T2 will feature customizable colours) are for resistance to eye strain. They weren't chosen to look fancy, they were chosen so that you can stare at your screen for hours without them getting tired. Sure, I stare at Word and its bright white pages for hours, too, and don't THINK that I'm straining my eyes because I'm accustomed to it. But when I switch over to Tracktion, the difference is real and tangible. Every element of the GUI, while not to everyone's liking (some people just feel more inspired by something that looks like hardware, which is fine) is chosen for ergonomic reasons, and shows evidence of intelligent design.

Sound quality... will be the same for all 3.

Automation is a snap in Tracktion, either recording it or drawing it. Unfortunately the drawn automation is with straight lines only, but for non-linear passages you can either draw a series of connected lines or just record the automation in realtime.

Don't know about Cubase's automation-- last time I tried it out, you still had only one option that I was aware of-- recording in realtime. I'm quite positive that you may now draw automation in, though.

Cakewalk's stuff is fine, but I'd be concerned about the DirectX thing, especially if budget is a concern (as it seems to be). There are hundreds and hundreds of free and high-quality VST plug-ins, but not so many on the DX side of things. I couldn't imagine buying a non-VST host after becoming a KvR regular and seeing all that VST developers have to offer. Sure, there are adapters/wrappers, but there are known issues and flaky behaviour for many (not all) users.

I won't lie. I'm very biased, and not fully-informed. I've tried Cubase, used Computer Muzys, and also used Cakewalk Plasma Express for a decent amount of time. I have not used Cubase SL 2.x (I don't recall there being a demo available), and nor have I used Home Studio 2004. But knowing what I know about those hosts, I have no need to ever leave Tracktion behind, especially not with the impending feature upgrades and decent collection of included plug-ins.

It's really the best tool I can imagine for recording audio, and it'll do a more than competent job of MIDI while it's at it. Throw in a fine plug-in by way of Final Mix (as the name implies, a plug-in for a good chunk of final mixing or home mastering needs) into version 1 (should you decide to stick with 1 instead of going to 2), and you have a robust package.

Finally, if it matters to you, it is touted as having one of the finest (if not THE finest) ReWire implementations in the industry.

<shrug>

I guess that's me done, then.

[darcyb62]

I'm with Lunch Money on this. I started my quest for some music composition from scratch and took a try at most of the demos that were available. With no pre-biases I selected Tracktion and haven't looked back at that decision. Version 1 does everything I ask it to do and more.

[mandolarian]

Food Fight! Tracktion, for me, is so much more fun to use than Sonar, Cakewalk, Cukebase, Snampletude. Vegas was great for audio, but DX only and no MIDI. Tracktion's interface is so brilliantly designed, I can't say enough wonderful things about T. It felt like I knew the program for years after about 15 minutes of use. T1 is a fully operational music magic-maker. T2 will be even better. So the choice is obvious:

Buy Cakewalk then Cubase. You need to suffer for your art. Then in a year or two, buy Tracktion and start making music the way you always dreamed you could!

[braj]

One thing is T2 is $150, not sure if it's still in your price range. It would be worth the extra cash IMO, but I just thought you should know if you didn't already.

[garret]

I love cakewalk home studio... it's the only host I've used, so I can't compare it to cubase or tracktion... but home studio works a charm for me.

If you're a student, faculty, or academic staff, you can get Home Studio 2 (which includes the VST adapter -- HS 2004 does not) for just $70.
http://www.studica.com/products/product ... ctid=10829

That's a steal the way I look at it... unlimited audio tracks, vst effects & instruments (limited to 24 instances per project, I think), solid midi sequencer/piano roll, mfx effects support, slick automation and envelopes, groove clip (acid) looping, etc...

So far I haven't found a reason to upgrade to Sonar.. but you'll want to look at the feature comparison on Cakewalk's website.

-Garret

[IIRs]

One thing is T2 is $150, not sure if it's still in your price range. It would be worth the extra cash IMO, but I just thought you should know if you didn't already.

Thats an argument to buy T1 now (get your skates on though!): he might not need the extra features in T2 at first, and will have the upgrade path (whatever that is) if/when he needs it..

[braj]

One thing is T2 is $150, not sure if it's still in your price range. It would be worth the extra cash IMO, but I just thought you should know if you didn't already.

Thats an argument to buy T1 now (get your skates on though!): he might not need the extra features in T2 at first, and will have the upgrade path (whatever that is) if/when he needs it..

Very good point. And depending what the upgrade costs are, he may save some $$.