How to improve vocal track?
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- KVRist
- 280 posts since 7 Mar, 2005 from Slovenia
I have an AKG C3000 mic which is not the best mic for vocal recording. But this is all I got. What would you use (do) to improve the sound......
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- KVRAF
- 4692 posts since 28 Jan, 2003 from In these very interwebs
Experiment with mic positioning so you get a natrual sound with low (or no) sillabance (prominant T's or S's) or plosives (prominant P's or B's).
Record at 24 bit with no processing. You don't need a compressor.
Spend a whole day listening to professional recordings and STUDY what the vocals sound like.
LEARN TO LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY and apply EQ and compression to your recorded vocals.
I've gotten excellent results with an SM57.
Forever,
Kim.
Record at 24 bit with no processing. You don't need a compressor.
Spend a whole day listening to professional recordings and STUDY what the vocals sound like.
LEARN TO LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY and apply EQ and compression to your recorded vocals.
I've gotten excellent results with an SM57.
Forever,
Kim.
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oddbods finger oddbods finger https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=55496
- KVRian
- 779 posts since 21 Jan, 2005 from The Vale of Eden
What pre-amp are you using?
I used to have a C3000B...it's an OK mic but I sold it and got another budget condensor - SE2000A which sounds better IMO, especially on my vocals and acoustic guitar.
It's no Neumann but it's sounds pretty good.
Since the C3000 first came out there's a lot more choice around now at that kind of price point.
Lot's of good budget large condensors around at the moment.
Most made in China.
BTW - I use a Joe Meek VC3Q pre-amp/compressor which is a cheap but excellent little unit for the price.
I used to have a C3000B...it's an OK mic but I sold it and got another budget condensor - SE2000A which sounds better IMO, especially on my vocals and acoustic guitar.
It's no Neumann but it's sounds pretty good.
Since the C3000 first came out there's a lot more choice around now at that kind of price point.
Lot's of good budget large condensors around at the moment.
Most made in China.
BTW - I use a Joe Meek VC3Q pre-amp/compressor which is a cheap but excellent little unit for the price.
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- KVRist
- 287 posts since 30 Dec, 2004 from Austin, Tejas - What do you want on YOUR breakfast taco?
What's wrong with your vocal track to your ears? What does your voice sound like in the first place - deep/boomy, nasal/thin, otherwise? What I usually do is EQ to emphasize the opposite of a given voice. My voice, for example, is pretty gruff, and low, so I'll de-emphasize that with some EQ, possibly even boosting the opposing frequencies. I'm also a fan of a sizzly plate reverb for vocals, at a level of about 80% dry to 20% wet, especially for my voice. If you've got a more thin or nasal voice, try perhaps a deeper/darker kind of verb. Double tracking (singing the same part twice) is also a good way to improve a vocal track. I do agree with previous posters, insofar as keeping the intitial dynamics processing to a bare minumum, if at all.
What's always most important in getting a good vocal track is getting the signal & the performance right....both of which are generally accomplished best by one tool - the lowly mike stand. First off, your microphone has a sweet(est) spot generally, and oddly enough, so does a voice. You'll have to experiment to find both. Sometimes you have to make a compromise of the two, say if your singer sings sharp or flat (most people have a tendency to drift one way or the other, even if it's ever so slightly)....I sing flatish, so I will usually position the mike so that I have to aim slightly up when I sing, forcing me to sing sharper than I usually do. A sharp singer can be forced flatter by making them aim slightly downward....As far as a signal goes, good cables, & the right amount of gain (enough to get a hot signal, sans overs, low enough to not introduce a huge noisefloor), with minimal dynamic processing, will go a long way to getting something flexible in a mix.
What's always most important in getting a good vocal track is getting the signal & the performance right....both of which are generally accomplished best by one tool - the lowly mike stand. First off, your microphone has a sweet(est) spot generally, and oddly enough, so does a voice. You'll have to experiment to find both. Sometimes you have to make a compromise of the two, say if your singer sings sharp or flat (most people have a tendency to drift one way or the other, even if it's ever so slightly)....I sing flatish, so I will usually position the mike so that I have to aim slightly up when I sing, forcing me to sing sharper than I usually do. A sharp singer can be forced flatter by making them aim slightly downward....As far as a signal goes, good cables, & the right amount of gain (enough to get a hot signal, sans overs, low enough to not introduce a huge noisefloor), with minimal dynamic processing, will go a long way to getting something flexible in a mix.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 280 posts since 7 Mar, 2005 from Slovenia
Thank you for your responds.
Maybe I did't provide enough info.
I usually record vocals with C3000 which goes to my Mackie 1642, Behringer Composer on the inserts, then into my ADAT and finaly into RME Hammerfall sound card.
It looks like I will stop using the Composer.
The vocal tracks I record sounds to me very sterile and cold... This is the best I can do describing what I don't like about it.
But anyway, thanks for your suggestions.
Maybe I did't provide enough info.
I usually record vocals with C3000 which goes to my Mackie 1642, Behringer Composer on the inserts, then into my ADAT and finaly into RME Hammerfall sound card.
It looks like I will stop using the Composer.
The vocal tracks I record sounds to me very sterile and cold... This is the best I can do describing what I don't like about it.
But anyway, thanks for your suggestions.
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- KVRAF
- 6323 posts since 30 Dec, 2004 from London uk
A big part of any Mic is the room its used in, it makes huge difference to the sound.
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- KVRAF
- 1740 posts since 6 Jan, 2004 from USA
voice lessons?mman wrote:I have an AKG C3000 mic which is not the best mic for vocal recording. But this is all I got. What would you use (do) to improve the sound......
lates
t-willy
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- KVRAF
- 1821 posts since 5 Oct, 2003
T-willy's teasing notwithstanding...
I almost always cut the mud-range (ca. 300Hz-500hz), but as noted above if you are not happy with the performance itslef then a great vocal track starts with a great performance.
I almost always cut the mud-range (ca. 300Hz-500hz), but as noted above if you are not happy with the performance itslef then a great vocal track starts with a great performance.
"Time makes fools of us all. Our only comfort is that greater shall come after us." Eric Temple Bell
http://thetomorrowfile.bandcamp.com/
http://thetomorrowfile.bandcamp.com/
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- KVRist
- 287 posts since 30 Dec, 2004 from Austin, Tejas - What do you want on YOUR breakfast taco?
It could be a variety of things in that chain, or it could be the mike position, or as another poster stated, the room. Do you have the room treated in any way? How far away is the microphone when you are singing? Have you tried only using the preamp section on the Mackie? If you take the Behringer out of the chain, does the sterile/cold sound go away? What about another mike, does it sound warmer? Have you tried recording onto the ADAT first and then playing back from there? Does it sound warmer, and if so, it may be the ADAT's converters that are making it sound cold. Have you tried using tube pres/comps instead (perhaps a friend has one you can try?), since it appears your current combo is all solid state? Or perhaps you might want to keep your signal all solid state as it is, but then once in your system use some kind of tube emu, of which there are many, some working better than others....mman wrote:Thank you for your responds.
Maybe I did't provide enough info.
I usually record vocals with C3000 which goes to my Mackie 1642, Behringer Composer on the inserts, then into my ADAT and finaly into RME Hammerfall sound card.
It looks like I will stop using the Composer.
The vocal tracks I record sounds to me very sterile and cold... This is the best I can do describing what I don't like about it.
But anyway, thanks for your suggestions.
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- KVRAF
- 25031 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
déja vu...Jeez wrote: Record at 24 bit with no processing. You don't need a compressor.
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- KVRist
- 317 posts since 20 Feb, 2005
ahaha.Jens wrote:déja vu...Jeez wrote: Record at 24 bit with no processing. You don't need a compressor.
I just wrote that (unknowingly) in another thread. Must be the most ubiquitous advice on the board .Regardless of any headroom questions however, a compressor may sometimes help the performance of the vocalist...
Deja Vu again??
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- Gifmeister
- 43 posts since 7 May, 2001 from running
You're doing homerecording... so you're using one of the best mics for that. Hehe, of course a Telefunken ELAM 251E would be better, as long you'll use it in a pro studio environmentmman wrote:I have an AKG C3000 mic which is not the best mic for vocal recording.
And yes, listen to what Kim says: Try a SM57! One day at college we heard recordings of it compared to other mostly super-expensive mics. It was a so-called "blind test" and 80% of the students decided that SM57 was the best
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- KVRist
- 43 posts since 26 Jan, 2004 from The Moon
We did this also except the AKG 414 was most popular. As said above it has allot to do with the room and the voice that is being recorded.Pepe wrote:One day at college we heard recordings of it compared to other mostly super-expensive mics. It was a so-called "blind test" and 80% of the students decided that SM57 was the best
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- KVRAF
- 25031 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
aha, you as well.. - ubiquitous? Not at all! - Kim never seems to get tired of pretending it but actually the common pro advice is that it is in any case recommended to use a compressor with moderate settings before going Del davo wrote:ahaha.Jens wrote:déja vu...Jeez wrote: Record at 24 bit with no processing. You don't need a compressor.
Regardless of any headroom questions however, a compressor may sometimes help the performance of the vocalist...
Deja Vu again??
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- KVRist
- 74 posts since 2 Feb, 2005 from Champaign, IL
Hey, I wouldn't blame your mic. I'm assuming the AKG c3000 isn't that different from the AKG c3000b, which is what I use primarily...
Use a pop filter. Record with a simple chain - go from mic to tube preamp - into your computer. Set yourself up to be as noisefree as you can be, and then use a nice NOISE GATE. Use a warm software based compression.
Does your mic have a low cutoff? Experiment with turning it on/off. Try recording at different distances.
I am consistently amazed with my AKG c3000b. I often use my vocal recordings with very little EQ. If the recording is too bright for your mixes, use EQ. A large diaphragm condensor mic gets such a wide frequency capture that you can do a lot with a nice EQ.
Here's a track of mine using the AKG c3000b. There's no way I could have gotten that kind of a warm thickness in any dynamic mic.
http://www.smashingpress.com/ar/zmedia- ... s_v1_0.mp3
Scroll to 02:10, and just listen through to that verse and the following chorus. Regardless of what you think of the song, I think that's a great demonstration of the full body that an AKG c3000b captures.
Any dynamic mic is going to be nasally and narrow in comparison to a large-diaphragm condensor mic. I still use dynamic mics on vocals when I need a thinner sound, but I'm baffled that anyone would suggest a dynamic mic over a large-diaphragm condensor mic for vocals.
Post a link to one of your vocal recordings that you aren't happy with so we can give specific advice.
Use a pop filter. Record with a simple chain - go from mic to tube preamp - into your computer. Set yourself up to be as noisefree as you can be, and then use a nice NOISE GATE. Use a warm software based compression.
Does your mic have a low cutoff? Experiment with turning it on/off. Try recording at different distances.
I am consistently amazed with my AKG c3000b. I often use my vocal recordings with very little EQ. If the recording is too bright for your mixes, use EQ. A large diaphragm condensor mic gets such a wide frequency capture that you can do a lot with a nice EQ.
Here's a track of mine using the AKG c3000b. There's no way I could have gotten that kind of a warm thickness in any dynamic mic.
http://www.smashingpress.com/ar/zmedia- ... s_v1_0.mp3
Scroll to 02:10, and just listen through to that verse and the following chorus. Regardless of what you think of the song, I think that's a great demonstration of the full body that an AKG c3000b captures.
Any dynamic mic is going to be nasally and narrow in comparison to a large-diaphragm condensor mic. I still use dynamic mics on vocals when I need a thinner sound, but I'm baffled that anyone would suggest a dynamic mic over a large-diaphragm condensor mic for vocals.
Post a link to one of your vocal recordings that you aren't happy with so we can give specific advice.