KVR Audio

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:01 am

While reading some idiot shout at some other idiot about the same old war between reverbs and convolution in another thread, I was wondering why there hasn't been a convolution plugin built around sample packs?

Like regular samplers, where multiple samples of the same instrument can be grouped together in a soundfont or giga pack or whatever, but instead of being played via keyboard, they are logically grouped on parameters.

So say you had a pack of impulses for some hardware reverb that ran through many permutations of parameters. From the plugin GUI, you could cycle through them in a similar fashion as you would with a regular reverb plugin. Sure you wouldn't have the same resolution as a non-convolution revrb, but if you've ever dealt with a list of IR files collected from one hardware unit, it can be very tedious indeed to change parameters by loading/unloading/searching ad nauseum.

Would this be too hard to implement? Sample packs could be made in the same way instruments are now, where you try to match up levels etc. What does anyone think about it?

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:05 am

Some clever developer could even come up with some kind of morphing technique between snapshots that it could improve parameter resolution, maybe even lead to a useful way of automating or adjusting widgets live.

Just seems that convolution plugins all seem fairly rudimentary in terms of user interface, especially compared to other sample playback tools, with so much focus on the technical specs instead.

Sicklecell666 · Post by **Sicklecell666** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:37 am

You mean doing something like having velocity routable to reverb decay or mix, etc?

That would 0wn.

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:21 am

Sort of. Maybe. I guess.

First you'd have to start out with the basic idea of working with impulse responses as a collection, and then work out useful ways of accessing them in succession, via keypress, modulation, automation or whatever.

Doesn't just have to be reverb. There are several packs of EQ IRs, useful to a point, but tedious in the extreme to have to load another IR file to adjust another -3db at 450Hz. On a regular EQ, you simply adjust a slider. I'm thinking ther could be a slider that moves you from one IR to a second IR that matches your desired adjustment. Making a bunch of individual IRs work together.

So say you have an IR with a 5 second reverb tail, and you want a 6 second reverb tail from the same hardware model captured. The way we do it now, you have to go and load a file (if you have it). I'm thinking there could be an impulsefont type thing where they all get collected into one group and accessed from the same GUI panel and made to work as a whole, rather than just a bunch of separate parts.

brianbrian · Post by **brianbrian** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:05 am

Sicklecell666 wrote:You mean doing something like having velocity routable to reverb decay or mix, etc?

That would 0wn.

The P100 reverb has this feature...route velocity to decay, spread, delay amount, feedback, attack, etc, as well as the ability to modulate any of these parameters with an envelope follower or several LFOs...

and yes it does 0wn!

I think this might be too CPU intensive if implemented for a convolution reverb. Not to mention the fact that somebody would have to take thousands of IRs from a reverb unit. Seems like a lot of work, but who knows, if someone actually did something like this and it had a reasonable CPU load I might buy it.

ReQuiem · Post by **ReQuiem** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:26 am

afaik, this is exactly what the TritoneDigital boys have done with their hydratone eq. a huge number of IR's which are selected by parameter changes.

greendoor · Post by **greendoor** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:36 am

Whether sampler or convolution processor, i'm opposed to the concept of built-in samples in anything other than .wav format. The reason? For a start, I want the freedom to use my own .wav files - for creative reasons, and because I don't want to be locked into buying simple .wav files from the developer at a high price. The other reason is not to waste my PC resources. I hate the idea of loading up a VST or VSTi that will fill my ram with unwanted crap. I'm all for VSTs coming with good libraries of samples, but let's not complicate life for us musicians. I guess some developers see this as a way of "protecting" their profits. But be aware that this is not in our best interests.

Barbed Wire Kiss · Post by **Barbed Wire Kiss** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:46 am

This is a great idea. Especially the morphing. That would be excellent when used with more the exoteric impulses.

atomic_(no)afro · Post by **atomic_(no)afro** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:03 am

You know, I bet Kontakt 2 could do this with its scripting functions and IR support. With sample crossfading over a wide range of parameter changes, you could have a fairly convincing hardware reverb emulation.

ATA

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:55 pm

ReQuiem wrote:afaik, this is exactly what the TritoneDigital boys have done with their hydratone eq. a huge number of IR's which are selected by parameter changes.

I thought they might have, except we can't load our own IRs into it.

Thinking about the morphing, here's another idea. What about a convolution resynthesizer plugin?

So take SIR and combine with Cameleon5000, where you can adjust amplitude and duration envelopes manually, and morph between the spectra of two IRs, etc.

SpectrumWorx has a lot of stuff in it, but I couldn't see any module that made use of 2 IR files in this sort of way.

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:57 pm

You can route amplitude to reverb decay and stuff in Reason 3 using the Combinator.

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:18 pm

Does Reason 3 have a convolution module?

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:34 pm

You can route midi velocity an envelope follower,lfo, formula controller etc in FL Studio to ANY vst plugin's listed parameter.. so, this means you can do this with normal algorithmic reverbs.. route velocity to decay, wet/dry, room size, pre-delay.. whatever you want.

Cheers!
bManic

Bassballjg · Post by **Bassballjg** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:05 pm

shamann wrote:
ReQuiem wrote:afaik, this is exactly what the TritoneDigital boys have done with their hydratone eq. a huge number of IR's which are selected by parameter changes.
I thought they might have, except we can't load our own IRs into it.

Thinking about the morphing, here's another idea. What about a convolution resynthesizer plugin?

So take SIR and combine with Cameleon5000, where you can adjust amplitude and duration envelopes manually, and morph between the spectra of two IRs, etc.

SpectrumWorx has a lot of stuff in it, but I couldn't see any module that made use of 2 IR files in this sort of way.

This is one of the best ideas I've heard in a long time.

Convolution plugin idea