Rob Papen Blue II ???

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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KVRAF
5231 posts since 20 Jul, 2010

Post Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:11 pm

Right, but that "false choice" has been removed which I like because it used to bug me becuase I was always playing with it to get the best results, which wasted time. Now it sounds more like it just sounds good, right off the bat, which is how a synth should be these days. Will have to check out the demo.
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KVRAF
5573 posts since 13 Jan, 2005 from the bottom of my heart

Post Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:12 pm

excellent synth even i'm more for sliders and not for knobs but at the end it's the sound and possibilities which make the difference.
Whoever wants music instead of noise, joy instead of pleasure, soul instead of gold, creative work instead of business, passion instead of foolery, finds no home in this trivial world of ours.

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KVRAF
5312 posts since 17 Aug, 2004 from Berlin, Germany

Post Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:42 pm

OK, the bug in Cubase was confirmed by Rob. They release an update very soon.

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KVRian
1326 posts since 6 May, 2005 from Michigan, USA

Post Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:24 am

Sendy wrote:Glad to hear the oscillators were improved. Though they sounded great for their time, the aliasing could get pretty hairy when you used wavefolding and phase distortion. Completely understandable at the time but these days I'm used to being spoiled.

I also found that the oversampling options in Blue 1 didn't really satisfy, they changed the sound too much and sometimes didn't really help cut down on aliasing; so I'm glad that feature has been ditched.
I remember finding the original Blue to be one of the worst offenders for aliasing I'd ever heard, and jacking up the oversampling setting didn't seem to reduce the aliasing at all...I found myself wondering if the oversampling was some feature that hadn't been implemented yet because the setting didn't seem to do anything.

Just demoed Blue2 last night and it sounds like things have improved in that department. Actually the presets have considerable initial "wow" factor and really show off how deep the options are now for creating vector sweeps and more abrupt wave sequences. Some of the patches sound reminiscent of a Korg Wavestation, but a modern-day version with better filters and effects and more thickness and weight to the sound. That XY pad looks cool as hell...the 2-dimensional envelope paths I saw in some of the presets go way beyond what one could do with a Prophet VS. It's almost like a vector synthesis equivalent of the complex wavescanning paths in PPG Wavegenerator. Sound designers are going to have a field day creating all kinds of complex, oddball, animated patches with this synth.
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KVRist
180 posts since 1 Nov, 2008

Post Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:57 pm

Blue 2 user here as well, and I'm really enjoying it.

I haven't dived into the sound design since I'm such a newbie at it anyway, but the patches are great. They are very usable and show off the capability of the synth.

That being said I am getting a glitch in Studio One Professional where every so often Blue 2 will "hiccup" in that it will suddenly not play a midi note, then it will go back to normal.

Anyone else experience this glitch? It only appears to be happening with Blue 2 for me, and not any other plugins.

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KVRAF
2658 posts since 10 Nov, 2013 from Germany

Post Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:22 am

codec_spurt wrote:Do NOT buy FM8.
You can't compare Blue 2 with FM8. Blue 2 is a hybrid one-fits-all synth, FM8 is focused on traditional FM.

Just compare the FM-matrix, I think FM8's matrix is more intuitive.

And what I really disliked when I played with Blue2 demo:

- Switching from FM matrix view to algorithm view destroys the sound.

- In FM8 when you need to enhance your operator-envelope simply click a new point into the env, in Blue2 you have to rebuild your patch (using the multistage modulation env).

Chris

KVRian
1070 posts since 1 Jul, 2008

Post Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:25 am

I agree there are areas where workflow might be improved, but mostly everything is in the right place, and it's exceptionally well-laid-out considering the feature set. In all honesty, after less than a week with Blue II I'm now looking at a few of my hardware pieces (inc the cherished FS1r) and thinking that they may be up for sale very soon.

Whilst the presets in Blue II are probably the best I've ever heard on any synth, my focus is on creating my own FM-based sounds from the ground-up. Must say it has been a wonderful experience so far.

I haven't felt the need to compare Blue II to other synths, but I would offer that the core FM sounds are similar between this and other FM VST's I own. For me, it is the additional features and how they are implemented in the GUI that makes Blue so intriguing. Many possibilities, yet it never feels overwhelming (though in fairness I was already somewhat familiar with version 1).

A lot of my time so far has been spent on making simple 2 and 3-op FM patches, then experimenting with different modulations. The FM engine behaves and sounds just how I would expect an FM engine to behave. But then stick a mod-sequencer on the parallel modulators' spread, add a pinch of feedback, a little reverb, and you've suddenly left the planet. There is rich sonic playground here, and I feel compelled to explore the possibilities. The sound quality is definitely top-notch.

Last night I finally got around to messing with the XY pad. It's genius.

IMO, If you are even vaguely interested in FM synthesis, you'd be remiss not to take the demo for a spin.

KVRAF
1966 posts since 23 Jun, 2006 from Hungary

Post Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:44 am

Just saw a Youtube vid about Blue2 ,
and it got me thinking - the new XY pad looks cool,
but I think I can do similar in Alchemy (XY MSEG Window) - different, but similar

KVRian
1070 posts since 1 Jul, 2008

Post Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:14 am

dune_rave wrote:Just saw a Youtube vid about Blue2 ,
and it got me thinking - the new XY pad looks cool,
but I think I can do similar in Alchemy (XY MSEG Window) - different, but similar
Similar, but there are some key differences. Blue's has polyphony, quantization and recordable movements.

One cool feature is that each parameter track can be muted or soloed (also via MIDI). This might be possible in Alchemy, but you will need to use external automation.

KVRAF
1966 posts since 23 Jun, 2006 from Hungary

Post Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:41 am

Just downloaded the win demo, played a bit,
I think Predator still remains my favorite.

KVRAF
1594 posts since 11 Jun, 2005 from Phoenix, Arizona

Post Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:00 am

HydrogenHuman wrote:Blue 2 user here as well, and I'm really enjoying it.

I haven't dived into the sound design since I'm such a newbie at it anyway, but the patches are great. They are very usable and show off the capability of the synth.

That being said I am getting a glitch in Studio One Professional where every so often Blue 2 will "hiccup" in that it will suddenly not play a midi note, then it will go back to normal.

Anyone else experience this glitch? It only appears to be happening with Blue 2 for me, and not any other plugins.
I'm using it in S1 and not seeing that behavior. I'm on OSX 10.6.8. Is it happening with every patch or some patches more often than others?

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KVRAF
2658 posts since 10 Nov, 2013 from Germany

Post Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:58 am

Blue II and FM8 in peaceful cooperation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VuFogNx_qA

KVRAF
4370 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Post Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:46 pm

Chris-S wrote:
codec_spurt wrote:Do NOT buy FM8.
You can't compare Blue 2 with FM8. Blue 2 is a hybrid one-fits-all synth, FM8 is focused on traditional FM.

Well, it's not exactly apples and oranges so I thought I would give it a crack. Having said that you gave it a pretty good go yourself! FM8 is a total hybrid. No way is it a pure FM synth, as I understand it. Both of them are cheating. You would have to. Pure FM sounds like shit compared to what people expect today.

I was ridiculed and pelted with rotten tomatoes for daring to spend a whole week coming up with a bass patch on my DX-100 (four operator as opposed to DX-7's six). Look, or rather, listen, it almost sounds analog! Duck. Splat. Twat.

:-)

Having said that. Someone put up a post here a few years ago with some deep whooshing analog sounding pad thing. (Was it Living Sounds the guy of 'Analog Shimmer fame) and everyone got it wrong when the game of 'what synth is this?' was played. It turned out to be some kind of DX variant, perhaps a TX-81Z or whatever. But generally, if you had to play by strict FM rules, the sound would be pretty harsh, good for acoustic repros and what not, Xylos and Glocks, but warm evolving pads. NO. And let's not even get into the argument that the DX wasn't even strictly FM but rather PM (Phase Modulation - Hello Casio CZ-101). Or if you do want to, go for it.

Blue, especially 'back in the day' was always touted as an FM synth, though it could so obviously do more than that. FM8 was based on the FM7 which was a supposed emulation of the DX7 (being able to read its patches via sysex is a pretty good claim to fame) which was the original FM synth that changed the whole playing field. Well, more than that, ushered in the Digital synth era in style. So both were FM.

And the thing is FM8 is so obviously not just an FM synth, in the way that FM7 wasn't and Blue certainly wasn't/isn't. In fact, I can't think of any other synth that can real compete with Blue in the full on analog pad/whoosh/raspy/evolving territory. Might not have explained it too well there. But suffice to say, the DX7 never sounded like that. Then again, if you knew what you were doing you could probably get the FM8 to sound like it. But not me.

I just don't like the FM8 interface. It's a horse's arse. But you should know that I am a deep deep lover of FM7. I make an exception for NI now and again, same as with Battery.

And I just have to qualify all that, before anyone else chimes in with a 'but they never had the FX section that FM8 or Blue II had'. True. They had no FX section at all. Unless if you were really sneaky about it (and it never worked as well as on an Ensoniq - you can do this with SQ8L and its 8 stage EGs or whatever they are) you could program in a bit of 'overhang' on the last stage of the EG and it would fill it out for you a little bit, in those days before digital reverb, before any type of reverb, apart from through your guitar amp.

Not sure what the prices are at the moment on FM8 vs. Blue II, but hey, Blue II sure looks like a lot of fun. I'm about to find out soon....
Last edited by codec_spurt on Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KVRAF
4370 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Post Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:54 pm

Vectorman wrote: I remember finding the original Blue to be one of the worst offenders for aliasing I'd ever heard
Well, if it is an FM Synth.

They alias like bastards. Every other 3rd or 4th note!

Sheesh!

Just like a guitar that is tuned properly. Through a tube amp.
They do the same!

But I'm sure you know what you are talking about more than me and I just got the wrong end of the stick.

Aliasing is ok. Just don't play so many notes.

WTF do you think this is? Some kind of Digital Analog Heaven?

:-)

KVRAF
4370 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Post Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:51 pm

Thanks to Rob and Mike, and of course, Jon.

It was really very generous of you to give me that upgrade price.

Just got Blue II. Yay..

Had to knock back a couple of people but you know there is always next week.


I just bought RP-Delay, as well just to say thanks.


You chaps are the best!

Dank je wel.

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