Available now: Tone2 Icarus2.5 - Wavetable Workstation

[rlared]

I am finding that in FL Studio I need to use the "Use fixed size buffers" option or I get crackles and pops with Icarus 2. Does anyone else have the same issue?

This is a well-known design flaw of FL Studio's VST interface which hasn't been fixed since a decade... I did measurements in the past and found out that it is badly designed and suffers from extreme jitter. As a result CPU spikes appear and especially complex plugins can start to crackle.
FL Studio is the only host which suffers from this. It also affects a wide range of plugins from other developers. I had contacted Imageline for several times about it but my reports got ignored. Instead of fixing the mess Imageline blames the plugin-developers for it ("the plugin is buggy"). Please refer to the support of Imageline about it.

Settings for all hosts:

Make sure that you enabled multicore/multithread support in your host. Icarus, Nemesis, Electra2, Gladiator2, RayBlaster, FireBird and UltraSpace are modern software and support multicore CPUs. They distribute CPU load on up to 4 cores per instance. This reduces the CPU load, prevents crackles and allows a lower latency setting for your soundcard.

Recommended sample-rate: 96kHz

FL Studio / Fruity Loops:

Go to the processing options in FL Studio and select 'use fixed size buffers' and 'Allow threaded processing'. Otherwise the FL Studio wrapper will cause random CPU spikes on Tone2 plugins and plugins of many other companies.

http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?PH ... pic=2390.0

Ok thank you Markus! Love Icarus 2 by the way!

[Markus Krause]

You're welcome

[polac]

FL Studio is the only host which suffers from this.

There is also Jeskola Buzz with variable blocksize processing, however i didn't get any crackles here with Icarus 2.

This is a well-known design flaw of FL Studio's VST interface which hasn't been fixed since a decade...

I don't think it a design flaw, there is nowhere in the vstsdk written that the blocksize has to be fixed all the time, there is only mentioned a maximum blocksize.

[polac]

however i didn't get any crackles here with Icarus 2

Hehe, it crackles in Buzz too, i just forgot that i enabled here the fixed blocksize handling too.

[exmatproton]

You're welcome

Although i think that you're right partially, i think Image-Line is quite honest about their implementation of the vst standard and the majority of plugins (not that many have to use altered wrapper settings actually, and i use FL Studio for 20 years) work just fine. Without the need of changing the wrapper settings. There are a couple of other companies that use a kind of vst implementation which generate issues with the wrapper, so we as users need to change those settings.

I am glad they added those settings and i think your use of words is a bit too harsh, to be honest.

Still, i love the Tone2 plugins and i am glad Image Line implemented those settings in the wrapper, so we all can use all those lovely plugins

Merry Christmas Markus!

[rickymark]

I'm about to buy this, been waitin' for the sale y'all!

[tony10000]

You're welcome


Although i think that you're right partially, i think Image-Line is quite honest about their implementation of the vst standard and the majority of plugins (not that many have to use altered wrapper settings actually, and i use FL Studio for 20 years) work just fine. Without the need of changing the wrapper settings. There are a couple of other companies that use a kind of vst implementation which generate issues with the wrapper, so we as users need to change those settings.

I have had problems with Synthmaster and Spire at times with those settings. so the block size setting can be problematic.

[exmatproton]

You're welcome


Although i think that you're right partially, i think Image-Line is quite honest about their implementation of the vst standard and the majority of plugins (not that many have to use altered wrapper settings actually, and i use FL Studio for 20 years) work just fine. Without the need of changing the wrapper settings. There are a couple of other companies that use a kind of vst implementation which generate issues with the wrapper, so we as users need to change those settings.

I have had problems with Synthmaster and Spire at times with those settings. so the block size setting can be problematic.

Indeed. As i said, there are some plugins with issues. But not that many.

[Markus Krause]

I don't think it a design flaw, there is nowhere in the vstsdk written that the blocksize has to be fixed all the time, there is only mentioned a maximum blocksize.

Please note that I am full-time developer with an university degree diploma. I am programming audio stuff since 27 years now and developed over 20 audio-products. I really should know how things should work

There are two reasons why the implementation that Imageline does is bad practice:

1) I did measurements. All other hosts use fixed block-sizes. If you implement an interface you should behave in the way like it is common practice to avoid possible incompatibilities.

2) When a block is processed there is a context-switch. A context switch always has lots of overhead. This is unavoidable. When a block consists of just 1 sample size (yes FL Studio does this!) lots of CPU is wasted and the cache is also messed up. This results in CPU spikes and possible dropouts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context_switch

[exmatproton]

I don't think it a design flaw, there is nowhere in the vstsdk written that the blocksize has to be fixed all the time, there is only mentioned a maximum blocksize.

Please note that I am full-time developer with an university degree diploma. I am programming audio stuff since 27 years now and developed over 20 audio-products. I really should know how things should work

There are two reasons why the implementation that Imageline does is bad practice:

1) I did measurements. All other hosts use fixed block-sizes. If you implement an interface you should behave in the way like it is common practice to avoid possible incompatibilities.

2) When a block is processed there is a context-switch. A context switch always has lots of overhead. This is unavoidable. When a block consists of just 1 sample size (yes FL Studio does this!) lots of CPU is wasted and the cache is also messed up. This results in CPU spikes and possible dropouts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context_switch

Luckily they added a wrapper setting to enable fixed buffer sizes

[Vortifex]

I like FL Studio but it's always been 'unique' with its issues regarding VST plugins. A synth can show 50% on FL's CPU meter but 15% in Studio One's. Some of the sequenced patches in Repro 5 still don't work properly in FL. Some synths like Spire won't work properly until you enable fixed buffer sizes. Never had an issue with Icarus though.

[Markus Krause]

Since a couple of years our synths can handle the 'unique' way FL Studio treats the plugins. I had to implement some special workarounds for this. However: If you don't use "fixed size buffers" dropouts become more likely than in other hosts if you use aggressive timing-settings for the sound-card

[tony10000]

I don't think it a design flaw, there is nowhere in the vstsdk written that the blocksize has to be fixed all the time, there is only mentioned a maximum blocksize.

Please note that I am full-time developer with an university degree diploma. I am programming audio stuff since 27 years now and developed over 20 audio-products. I really should know how things should work

Markus, I must say that you are a true genius of DSP programming. Your filters are simply amazing! So sad to hear that you will not be doing development in the future.

[DJErmac]

Icarus2 was my Christmas gift from my wife. I've just discovered it and wanted to stop and say : WOW !!
You guys did an amazing job ! It sounds awesome !!!! The presets are gorgeous...

[starflakeprj]

Yes, Icarus is amazing, top 3 of all synth plugins I own, and judging by my signature, I have a few. I actually own every single plugin from Tone2, including all expansions. I do fully respect Markus' choice to stop developing new plugins, so from now on I'm looking forward to any expansion released for Icarus 2.

What I do miss from Markus' line-up is Vanguard though, would love to see a re-make of that one