Reason Rack VST

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
zoidkirb
KVRist
119 posts since 9 Jun, 2019 from Brisbane Australia

Post Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:18 pm

thejonsolo wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:13 pm
Wait wait...is Rewire removed from 11?
Yes.

mholloway
KVRian
1455 posts since 11 Jan, 2009 from Portland, OR, USA

Post Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:57 pm

tatanka wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:29 am
EDIT: just realized: the whole Drum Sequencer is not even MENTIONED in the 798 pages Rack manual, not in the players section, not in the index :-(
That's because it's not a part of the Standard Reason 11 package. Do you expect every single ReFill product to get a chapter in the manual that is already 798 pages long?

Many reason users got it for free, as it was a 'bonus' given to them when it was released. But that doesn't change the fact that it's a ReFill product, not part of the core package.

I think we will eventually see MIDI in/out configuration for the Player devices in a future update to the Reason Rack VST.

For now, I think there's no way to easily trigger the different patterns in the drum sequencer.
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themixtape
KVRist
217 posts since 13 May, 2004

Post Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:41 am

My thoughts (posted on Reddit and GS):

Reason 11 Major Oversights for the Plugin-

1. No MIDI learn for the devices (instruments AND effects) (Really?). Even the standard Reason MIDI Implementation shows that CC9, CC12, CC72, CC73 (A D S R for a handful of the common Reason instruments) don't work right out of the box... at least include the basic MIDI implementation so we don't have to use the DAW's MIDI-learn (some of which are clunky)...

2. No MIDI learn for previous/next preset browsing (Arturia V-Collection does this with ALL of their included instruments)... and everything's easily midi-learnable. The Novation SL MKIII in InControl mode lets you easily browse previous/next preset... and if it gets "lost" (by mousing around), you just click back into the main preset section, and the buttons work perfectly again.

3. No MIDI output from any of the Players (even free plugins like Chordz, Cales, Kirnu Arpeggiator, etc... send MIDI output from their plugins, when used as Input FX, in Reaper)... they're FREE. Another CHEAP plugin (the well-respected Cthulhu by Xfer (same people who do Serum), sends MIDI output, from the Chords or the Arpeggiator modes. EZkeys (another Swedish company, Toontrack) enables MIDI output. It's 2019. MIDI output, please?

4. Dropping Rewire fully and completely, but crippling the plugin? Not a wise move. At all. Not everyone wants to use Ableton Link. Rewire might be clunky sometimes, but it gives us a lot of great options.

5. No "Copy to Track" for the loop-based instruments like Dr. OctoRex or the Matrix pattern sequencer (or any sequencer). At least offer a drag-n-drop? Omnisphere does, EZkeys does, Superior Drummer, EZ Drummer.....

6. No MIDI channel config, per device. Someone in this thread mentioned that the Rack should work like Kontakt (couldn't agree more)... allowing for different MIDI channels per device. Otherwise, if you want to control 8 instruments, you'll need 8 INSTANCES of the Reason Rack plugin. Why? With Rewire, all you need is one instance of Reason, and a Template that has all your MIDI routing set, so you can play all the instruments you want, and sequence in the other DAW, if you prefer.

Guys... you can't drop Rewire, introduce Reason as a plugin (after 20 years), and forget these very, very, very, very important things. You've got to listen to the people who are buying your product, or who are interested in buying it.

As cool/fun as Reason is, these are all major oversights. Major.

User avatar
Omkar
KVRian
912 posts since 25 Dec, 2007 from Hamburg,Germany

Post Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:54 am

Great cons summary in one place,
pretty helpful and I`ll stick on the fence for now.
Thanks.
themixtape wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:41 am
My thoughts (posted on Reddit and GS):

Reason 11 Major Oversights for the Plugin-

1. No MIDI learn for the devices (instruments AND effects) (Really?). Even the standard Reason MIDI Implementation shows that CC9, CC12, CC72, CC73 (A D S R for a handful of the common Reason instruments) don't work right out of the box... at least include the basic MIDI implementation so we don't have to use the DAW's MIDI-learn (some of which are clunky)...

2. No MIDI learn for previous/next preset browsing (Arturia V-Collection does this with ALL of their included instruments)... and everything's easily midi-learnable. The Novation SL MKIII in InControl mode lets you easily browse previous/next preset... and if it gets "lost" (by mousing around), you just click back into the main preset section, and the buttons work perfectly again.

3. No MIDI output from any of the Players (even free plugins like Chordz, Cales, Kirnu Arpeggiator, etc... send MIDI output from their plugins, when used as Input FX, in Reaper)... they're FREE. Another CHEAP plugin (the well-respected Cthulhu by Xfer (same people who do Serum), sends MIDI output, from the Chords or the Arpeggiator modes. EZkeys (another Swedish company, Toontrack) enables MIDI output. It's 2019. MIDI output, please?

4. Dropping Rewire fully and completely, but crippling the plugin? Not a wise move. At all. Not everyone wants to use Ableton Link. Rewire might be clunky sometimes, but it gives us a lot of great options.

5. No "Copy to Track" for the loop-based instruments like Dr. OctoRex or the Matrix pattern sequencer (or any sequencer). At least offer a drag-n-drop? Omnisphere does, EZkeys does, Superior Drummer, EZ Drummer.....

6. No MIDI channel config, per device. Someone in this thread mentioned that the Rack should work like Kontakt (couldn't agree more)... allowing for different MIDI channels per device. Otherwise, if you want to control 8 instruments, you'll need 8 INSTANCES of the Reason Rack plugin. Why? With Rewire, all you need is one instance of Reason, and a Template that has all your MIDI routing set, so you can play all the instruments you want, and sequence in the other DAW, if you prefer.

Guys... you can't drop Rewire, introduce Reason as a plugin (after 20 years), and forget these very, very, very, very important things. You've got to listen to the people who are buying your product, or who are interested in buying it.

As cool/fun as Reason is, these are all major oversights. Major.
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fceramic
KVRian
1321 posts since 1 Jun, 2008

Post Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:02 am

For me, the biggest deal-breaker is the lack of hotkey-support. Removing a device and flipping the rack is a PITA in the VST. Plenty of VSTs with hotkey support.

krankyone
KVRist
194 posts since 13 Oct, 2006

Post Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:05 am

I stopped using Reason with version 3, mostly because Ableton/Rewire was just too clunky for me. To my amazement, I could upgrade to 11 using this license. The Suite as a rack plugin in Live might only be 95% fantastic, but I'm too busy enjoying it to notice that last 5%. I have not, and probably won't, opened the stand alone Reason.
2020 iMac 27" 10 Core, OS 10.15.6, iConnectAudio2+, iConnectMidi4+, Novation SL MKIII, Push 2, Ableton Live

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lotus2035
KVRAF
4311 posts since 5 May, 2005 from Stockholm, Sweden

Post Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:55 am

Was thinking of picking up Reason 11 Intro, nice bargain for 80 bux or whatever.
But the word around (KVR) town is it's not multitimbral?
You need to load a separate instance for every instrument?
Kind of defeats the purpose of it being called a RACK eh? :hihi:
Why not just release the bits and pieces as separate plugins then eh Props? (sorry Reason, Studios).
I'll still buy it though cause I'm an idiot. :nutter:

glokraw
KVRAF
7690 posts since 6 Oct, 2004

Post Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:19 pm

It's a rack, I loaded it with Europa, Thor, a jaunty rex drum pattern
in the OctaRex player, and a couple of effects. Don't believe
the water-cooler cronies posting here
when their boss isn't looking :dog: :wink:

tatanka
KVRian
1337 posts since 13 Jan, 2014

Post Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:49 pm

Great cons summary in one place,
pretty helpful and I`ll stick on the fence for now.
Thanks.
+1 goes of course to themixtape for putting this together

Even if I must admit the more I get into using this as rack version vst the more I love it :-).

The combinator as THE rack idea is nowhere implemented that straight, easy to use and unbelievable economical in case of cpu use. Try to put together one average combinator inside any other rack of any daw with normal vst instruments and effects and I am sure you will blow most daw away.

And then the amount of available presets with expansions or refills, really opens up a new universe for me. Bought yesterday the cinematics and athmospheres booster pack for ridiculous 30 bucks (and no they were not on sale) and I will be busy with this, even it it is old stuff, for years (not to talk about the hundreds of bucks you will have to spend to get something like this as kontakt libs for example).

User avatar
lotus2035
KVRAF
4311 posts since 5 May, 2005 from Stockholm, Sweden

Post Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:10 pm

glokraw wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:19 pm
It's a rack, I loaded it with Europa, Thor, a jaunty rex drum pattern
in the OctaRex player, and a couple of effects. Don't believe
the water-cooler cronies posting here
when their boss isn't looking :dog: :wink:
Can you control them separately via different MIDI tracks in your DAW?

User avatar
gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
3252 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:44 pm

People now only start to realise the rack is not multitimbral , and you need to load additional racks ?
Rewire was superior when it came to midi , I set up templates/outputs and controlled all the instruments and it's parameters from renoise , all appearing in renoise individal mixer channels .
Never ever did I use reason's sequencer .
But yeah , people were screaming for vst for years ..and now..
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pandashake
KVRAF
2059 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from flint, michigan

Post Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:40 pm

lotus2035 wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:10 pm
glokraw wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:19 pm
It's a rack, I loaded it with Europa, Thor, a jaunty rex drum pattern
in the OctaRex player, and a couple of effects. Don't believe
the water-cooler cronies posting here
when their boss isn't looking :dog: :wink:
Can you control them separately via different MIDI tracks in your DAW?
This is where it fell short, or at least the beta did. Everything else was spot on, but this was just a glaring oversight on the props’ part.

glokraw
KVRAF
7690 posts since 6 Oct, 2004

Post Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:56 pm

I have too many plugins for separate midi tracks already.
For multi-timbrals, I have SampleTank, Yoshimi/Zynaddsubfx,
Syntronik, Wusikstation, even Kontakt, though I rarely load more
than four layers on them, because mud is easier to make
than cookies. :wink:

Reason Rack is fresh out of the oven, let the cake cool
before frosting it :hyper: I bet like MassiveX, the release
timing over-rode the feature-list from the beancounters
perspective, In Reason Rack's case, thinking, release it now,
before black friday smothers it. Midi things missing is
not likely an oversight, just a judgement call. I would expect
a new version in a few months, maybe for Valentines day
or spring break?

I bought the rack mainly for Europa and the rex player,
as I missed the Europa intro price, and have rex loops from Guru
and other sources that were idle too long. Many bonuses
are there for me, in the rest of the rack, as one who never used/heard from Reason for all these years.
Cheers
.

THE INTRANCER
KVRAF
1602 posts since 30 Dec, 2014

Post Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:31 pm

glokraw wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:56 pm
Reason Rack is fresh out of the oven, let the cake cool
before frosting it :hyper: I bet like MassiveX, the release
Props should have mixed in all the ingredients before putting it in the oven and serving it half cooked.
:P

If there is one thing I've learnt from Propellerheads over the past two decades, and that's not to expect anything... because you'll more often than not, feel disappointed with under developed features.

It took 14 years to have more than 8 colours for track colouring....which was always complained about.
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glokraw
KVRAF
7690 posts since 6 Oct, 2004

Post Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:46 pm

A lot of devs will be lucky to be in business for two decades,
let alone in the shops. :scared:

But props for hitting the softball a mile.
(pun intended) Vegas may be calling you soon :wink:

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