KVR Audio

sureno · Post by **sureno** » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:22 pm

Dammit I thought I was done with BF!!!! Sononym in the bag, I also have atlas for some time and got XO in the BF sale too!!!

SirKen · Post by **SirKen** » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:43 pm

How does it fare with high number of samples? Does it slow down significantly?

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:29 pm

SirKen wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:43 pm How does it fare with high number of samples? Does it slow down significantly?

I love XO. I've got about 50,000 samples I think, and it hasn't slowed at all. I've arranged all my third party stuff into broad folders - analogue drum machines, synth drums etc - its an absurd amount of fun using live filter with these.

One surprising omission is there's no keyboard start/stop for the pattern. It would be great actually if they could have a few variations on different keys, maybe something for a future update.

JiggSaw · Post by **JiggSaw** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:31 am

XO is one of my favorite purchases this year. However, the pattern length absolutely KILLS me. Two 1-bar patterns is not enough. It bothers me way more than the 8 sample limit that a lot of people complain about.

dionenoid · Post by **dionenoid** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:00 am

SirKen wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:43 pm How does it fare with high number of samples? Does it slow down significantly?

I have a few hundred thousand samples. It's now a bit slower during start-up (also during start-up of my daw when XO is in use) but we're talking seconds here. So i'd say it fares pretty well.

yellowmix · Post by **yellowmix** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:11 am

antic604 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:46 pm I really wish there was a software - like XO or Atlas - that can also index the samples in proprietary sample packs, like from Reason, Live, Cubase, Studio One. Even if just when running as a VST in this DAW.

Sorry, not gonna happen. Many of those samples are encrypted/locked and reverse engineering/breaking the encryption likely violates EULAs. We as consumers need to demand open formats and loose samples and reward developers who provide them.

Ironically, XO's samples are locked as well, but that is likely due to their contract with Samplephonics/Noiiz who are the rights holder. Which is often the case in other products' libraries.

Caine123 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:58 pm thx im just demoing it, yeah this works, still a bummer you cannot save kits...

The demo can't but the full version can save presets. Bummer the demo can't so you can have it if you buy the product. But since it's an otherwise fully-featured demo I can see why.

SirKen wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:43 pm How does it fare with high number of samples? Does it slow down significantly?

I threw it at a 1M+ sample folder, that also symlinks to loose samples from sampler instruments, other products' libraries, etc.. It took overnight to index and classify drum one-shots. Once that was done, the app itself loads relatively fast, it's useable within a few seconds. If I add or remove samples it can automatically re-index/classify in the background per-folder or you can force a "scan and refresh" which is more system-intensive. It can take anywhere from fractions of a second to 2-3 seconds to classify a sample. But you can still trigger drum hits during this.

I'm very happy with the performance, some other products choked and never finished indexing, or are constantly indexing at an aggressive level.

JiggSaw wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:31 am XO is one of my favorite purchases this year. However, the pattern length absolutely KILLS me. Two 1-bar patterns is not enough. It bothers me way more than the 8 sample limit that a lot of people complain about.

Yeah, it's clear they wanted a very fast and fun experimentation "playground" which necessitated a one screen type view. But the way it's implemented leads me to dragging the patterns out as MIDI and generating more, and repeating.

It seems it's more for auditioning and building loops (or sequencing externally) than using it as a sequenced drum machine. That the exported MIDI has all the sequencer information (there is no randomness/variation in the sequence that would change it on future iterations) seems to reinforce this.

Given how fast it lets me build a great kit and how good the workflow is I'm okay with it. I ultimately sequence in MIDI as well so I could see it would seem like a missed opportunity for people that want a groove box. If they add more sequence patterns they need to do it in a way that works elegantly within that one small strip (or maybe a dropdown like the playgrounds), a GUI to sequence the patterns, a way to trigger the patterns via MIDI, etc.. It becomes complex rather quickly and I'm not sure that is a goal for this. But it wouldn't hurt to contact XLN, I've sent them ideas and they were receptive to it.

JiggSaw · Post by **JiggSaw** » Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:43 pm

JiggSaw wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:31 am XO is one of my favorite purchases this year. However, the pattern length absolutely KILLS me. Two 1-bar patterns is not enough. It bothers me way more than the 8 sample limit that a lot of people complain about.

yellowmix wrote: Yeah, it's clear they wanted a very fast and fun experimentation "playground" which necessitated a one screen type view. But the way it's implemented leads me to dragging the patterns out as MIDI and generating more, and repeating.

It seems it's more for auditioning and building loops (or sequencing externally) than using it as a sequenced drum machine. That the exported MIDI has all the sequencer information (there is no randomness/variation in the sequence that would change it on future iterations) seems to reinforce this.

Given how fast it lets me build a great kit and how good the workflow is I'm okay with it. I ultimately sequence in MIDI as well so I could see it would seem like a missed opportunity for people that want a groove box. If they add more sequence patterns they need to do it in a way that works elegantly within that one small strip (or maybe a dropdown like the playgrounds), a GUI to sequence the patterns, a way to trigger the patterns via MIDI, etc.. It becomes complex rather quickly and I'm not sure that is a goal for this. But it wouldn't hurt to contact XLN, I've sent them ideas and they were receptive to it.

I'd love more details on your workflow when exporting MIDI. Are you able to play your exported MIDI and THEN your new patterns in XO in tandem? Basically 4 total bars. Using the same drum kit? I'm trying to picture it and wrap my head around how to do it but I can't.

yellowmix · Post by **yellowmix** » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:05 am

Okay, so I've discovered and built a drum kit. Now I'm in the Edit mode. From here, I can sequence, use the Beat Combiner, experiment, until I get a pattern I like. I open the export pane and drag the MIDI onto the track. When the DAW plays through the MIDI it will trigger XO as a drum machine.

If I want more bars then I sequence a new one. I can nudge it forward for urgency in the chorus, back in the verses, etc.. If I want to audition it, XO can be syncd to the host, I can loop over the section I am auditioning it with, XO will start playback on DAW transport play start if its play button is activated. If I'm happy I can open the export pane and drag the MIDI where it belongs. Rinse and repeat.

It's a semifirm commitment since I can still edit the MIDI or replace it with another dragged MIDI section.

If you want to be able to clear the pattern, lock the kit samples then load the Init preset. But it's nice having the previous pattern there to work with too (the way patterns A and B ghost each other is so nice!). And it's easy to clear things individually, just click on one activated cell to deactivate then drag left and right to paint empty. Very elegant workflow throughout.

JiggSaw · Post by **JiggSaw** » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:19 pm

yellowmix wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:05 am Okay, so I've discovered and built a drum kit. Now I'm in the Edit mode. From here, I can sequence, use the Beat Combiner, experiment, until I get a pattern I like. I open the export pane and drag the MIDI onto the track. When the DAW plays through the MIDI it will trigger XO as a drum machine.

Yep, got that part

If I want more bars then I sequence a new one. I can nudge it forward for urgency in the chorus, back in the verses, etc.. If I want to audition it, XO can be syncd to the host, I can loop over the section I am auditioning it with, XO will start playback on DAW transport play start if its play button is activated. If I'm happy I can open the export pane and drag the MIDI where it belongs. Rinse and repeat.

This is where I get a little lost. Yeah, I know I can sequence another pattern at this point. However, I would just be auditioning the patterns in XO correct?

When I start play on DAW transport, I'd like it to play the previously exported MIDI first and THEN the pattern I'm currently working on in XO. So I can hear how it all sounds together (before dragging the 2nd MIDI to the DAW). Is that possible?

It seems like it would just play the exported midi and the pattern in XO at the same time which isn't ideal. Unless I'm being slow.

The only workaround I can think of is to duplicate the exported MIDI (so it retains the swing, nudges, velocity, etc.) in the DAW to whatever length I need. Then just work on the MIDI (adding/removing notes, etc.) in the DAW.

It's a semifirm commitment since I can still edit the MIDI or replace it with another dragged MIDI section.

If you want to be able to clear the pattern, lock the kit samples then load the Init preset. But it's nice having the previous pattern there to work with too (the way patterns A and B ghost each other is so nice!). And it's easy to clear things individually, just click on one activated cell to deactivate then drag left and right to paint empty. Very elegant workflow throughout.

Yeah, I love the workflow.

yellowmix · Post by **yellowmix** » Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:52 am

JiggSaw wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:19 pm When I start play on DAW transport, I'd like it to play the previously exported MIDI first and THEN the pattern I'm currently working on in XO. So I can hear how it all sounds together (before dragging the 2nd MIDI to the DAW). Is that possible?

Yeah, but it's a kludge. Blank pattern A. Build the beat you want to audition in B. Set the chain to AB. Then in the DAW you can play one bar before the auditioning pattern plays. You could also set the chain to AAAB for a few more bars.

JiggSaw · Post by **JiggSaw** » Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:17 pm

Yeah.. almost all of the videos out there are mainly overviews and walk-throughs. I would love to see more videos of actually incorporating it into different workflows and real world scenarios. There are so many ways to use it as we've already discussed in this thread. It's crazy because XO is extremely flexible and limiting at the same time.

I was wrong about XLN XO...