Introducing EXC!TE SNARE DRUM a physical modeling snare synthesizer

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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KVRer

Topic Starter

28 posts since 29 Jan, 2021 from Weimar

Post Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:42 am

Ploki wrote:
Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:12 pm
the freebie is cool - snares are a little grainy, but what really piqued my interest is sidechain input from the video. it looks so organic.
i don't think this makes sense with only midi input - it's not its biggest strength it would appear.
Hi Ploki,
yes, absolutely. If someone wants is a techno snare, I'm positive there are much better sample based snares which are hitting hard. The beauty of our approach is the playfulness in the parameters which you can manipulate in real time while you hear the sound. The acoustic excitation is our core feature and you can expect much more from us to come in this regard. Including hardware.

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KVRer

Topic Starter

28 posts since 29 Jan, 2021 from Weimar

Post Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:43 am

Tj Shredder wrote:
Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:22 am
CHAIR wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:14 am
jonalyn wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:08 pm
Can you please add à Way to enter the note for the tune parameter ?
This is a totally valid request. We have tried this already, and it's not so simple as it may sound. However, we will revisit this and see if we can make it happen.
https://www.music.mcgill.ca/~gary/307/week1/node28.html
In this case, it's not so easy unfortunately :lol: I wish it was!

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KVRer

Topic Starter

28 posts since 29 Jan, 2021 from Weimar

Post Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:47 am

CinningBao wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:25 am
I cannot get the sidechain working in a 'live' mode in Logic at all.

Works fine from an audio track with a beat or whatever (in fact it responds to external audio really rather nicely), but as soon as I try to play it from an audio channel with input monitoring enabled I get nothing. I've tested the AU version in PlogueBidule and that works fine. Is there some strange quirk in Logic which needs dealing with before it will work with a live input?

I love the sound of these guys' code, which looks like strange thing to say, but I said it.
Hi CinninBao,
Thanks for testing! I guess we can put PlogueBidule on the "verified working hosts"-list? Logic is acting strange in many regards (the sandboxing, etc), but we found something which may cause this. We are still investigating. Please stay tuned, and sorry for the inconvenience.

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KVRAF
6189 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:16 am

CHAIR wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:43 am
Tj Shredder wrote:
Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:22 am
CHAIR wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:14 am
jonalyn wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:08 pm
Can you please add à Way to enter the note for the tune parameter ?
This is a totally valid request. We have tried this already, and it's not so simple as it may sound. However, we will revisit this and see if we can make it happen.
https://www.music.mcgill.ca/~gary/307/week1/node28.html
In this case, it's not so easy unfortunately :lol: I wish it was!
Why not? the code is layed out for you already. And you'll find code snippets in any programming language which is used for music in the world on the net... If you simply assume that A (Midi 69) is on 440 Hz, most people will be happy, and those who use 432 are able to adjust themself...

KVRAF
2050 posts since 15 Apr, 2004 from Capital City, UK

Post Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:16 am

CHAIR wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:36 am
CinningBao wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:41 am
Also, can we make the default value of the FreqShift 0 rather than 50?
Hi CinningBao,
this is intentional, because the frequency shifter is not only a nice feature to change the spectrum of the input sound but it also very effectively suppresses feedback. Signal excitation through a microphone could easily result in terrible feedback, that's why the default is not zero.
I totally understand the reason, I think BBC discovered it as a technique in the 30's or so? Fair enough, I guess, because I couldn't get it to work with the live input, it's not preventing any feedback! But when it works, it will.

KVRAF
2050 posts since 15 Apr, 2004 from Capital City, UK

Post Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:17 am

CHAIR wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:47 am
CinningBao wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:25 am
I cannot get the sidechain working in a 'live' mode in Logic at all.

Works fine from an audio track with a beat or whatever (in fact it responds to external audio really rather nicely), but as soon as I try to play it from an audio channel with input monitoring enabled I get nothing. I've tested the AU version in PlogueBidule and that works fine. Is there some strange quirk in Logic which needs dealing with before it will work with a live input?

I love the sound of these guys' code, which looks like strange thing to say, but I said it.
Hi CinninBao,
Thanks for testing! I guess we can put PlogueBidule on the "verified working hosts"-list? Logic is acting strange in many regards (the sandboxing, etc), but we found something which may cause this. We are still investigating. Please stay tuned, and sorry for the inconvenience.
Yep. add it to the working hosts list. No worries, I understand Logic can be a difficult host to get things working in. Looking forward to the fix!

KVRAF
2050 posts since 15 Apr, 2004 from Capital City, UK

Post Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:22 am

Tj Shredder wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:16 am
CHAIR wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:43 am
Tj Shredder wrote:
Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:22 am
CHAIR wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:14 am
jonalyn wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:08 pm
Can you please add à Way to enter the note for the tune parameter ?
This is a totally valid request. We have tried this already, and it's not so simple as it may sound. However, we will revisit this and see if we can make it happen.
https://www.music.mcgill.ca/~gary/307/week1/node28.html
In this case, it's not so easy unfortunately :lol: I wish it was!
Why not? the code is layed out for you already. And you'll find code snippets in any programming language which is used for music in the world on the net... If you simply assume that A (Midi 69) is on 440 Hz, most people will be happy, and those who use 432 are able to adjust themself...
I want to say to Shredder, I know it looks easy when you find a simple freq-to-midi scale/ratio/algorithm, but physically modelled maths isn't quite like normal oscillator engines, and the frequencies of the modelled output, especially 'un-pitched' things like drums, can have a different relationship to frequency than the one we understand from regular oscillators.

With that in mind, I can somewhat understand that it might not be as easy to map the pith of the snare to MIDI notes as easily as you think.

User avatar
KVRAF
6189 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:37 am

But the request is just intended to help to find the frequency by using a note value. The problem you describe has nothing to do with it, you can still tune it afterwards by ear if necessary. The relation between a Midi note and a frequency is always the same…

User avatar
KVRer

Topic Starter

28 posts since 29 Jan, 2021 from Weimar

Post Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:48 pm

Tj Shredder wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:37 am
But the request is just intended to help to find the frequency by using a note value. The problem you describe has nothing to do with it, you can still tune it afterwards by ear if necessary. The relation between a Midi note and a frequency is always the same…
Converting a MIDI note to a frequency is not the issue.
In the snare drum waveguide model, we have four serial delay lines (or more precisely: allpass filters) which are nested in a fifth delay line. To change the pitch of the whole drum, the length of some of these delay lines are changed, the longer the delay line is the lower the sound. To add the complexity they aren't changed equally. So the relationship of the pitch and the delay parameter isn't fully linear but follows an unknown function. It's possible to mathematically derive this function or experimentally measure it, but it would be super frustrating for the user if it would only match 'almost' and not exactly. A user would expect it to be precise. It's possible to figure out this relationship, but not trivial.
On top of that issue there is the issue of defining the exact pitch of something with a lot of noise content like a snare sound. Last but not least it's an interface question: how do we add another kind of control while keeping the clean look the UI has now.
This is all to say: This feature is definitely on the list of what we want to improve for the plugin, but it's not a small thing or a 'low hanging fruit' to add easily.

User avatar
KVRAF
6189 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:36 pm

Yeah, its not as simple as with Karplus-Strong (1/t). I agree, its a bit more complicated according to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibration ... r_membrane
But not completely unknown... At the moment there are only 50 distinct values, might be easier to just measure the tunings of that specific model. Other parameters modify it, but only slightly...
And I must say, it really sounds good and realistic, especially if played on my BopPad...

User avatar
KVRer

Topic Starter

28 posts since 29 Jan, 2021 from Weimar

Post Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:56 pm

Tj Shredder wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:36 pm
At the moment there are only 50 distinct values, might be easier to just measure the tunings of that specific model. Other parameters modify it, but only slightly...
And I must say, it really sounds good and realistic, especially if played on my BopPad...
Small correction: 100 values: The tuning slider goes from -50 to +50.
I'd love to see how you set it up with the BopPad, we should get one. Did you watch the video where we used a regular drum trigger pad for acoustic excitation? (a pro version feature)
https://www.chair.audio/product/excite-snare-drum-pro/
Last edited by CHAIR on Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
KVRAF
6189 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:58 am

CHAIR wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:56 pm
Tj Shredder wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:36 pm
At the moment there are only 50 distinct values, might be easier to just measure the tunings of that specific model. Other parameters modify it, but only slightly...
And I must say, it really sounds good and realistic, especially if played on my BopPad...
Small correction: 100 values: The tuning slider goes from -50 to +50.
I'd love to see how you set it up with the BopPad, we should get one. Did you watch the video where we used a regular drum trigger pad for acoustic excitation? (a pro version feature)
https://www.chair.audio/product/excte-snare-drum-pro/
Yes I have seen that video. Exaltation with a real sound has advantages of course. With the BopPad I just connected it first directly, which already is quite nice, just velocity dynamics.
Then I tried to apply the hit position to the position of the hit (obvious isn't it?). But this was a bit disappointing, as the areas except for the extremes are dampened more than I expected, maybe it needs a different curve?...
Next would be to apply the pressure to the tuning... I am still experimenting...
Anyway I sit in Berlin, we could meet and I'd come with the BopPad...

User avatar
KVRer

Topic Starter

28 posts since 29 Jan, 2021 from Weimar

Post Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:50 am

We just updated the free and pro versions of our EXC!TE SNARE DRUM plugin.
Changelog:
  • No more dependency on AVX processors
  • Now also supports MOTU Digital Performer and Cakewalk by BandLab
  • AudioUnit version in MacOS installer
  • Bugfixes
The audio sidechain of the PRO version is not working in
  • MAGIX Samplitude
  • PreSonus Studio One
due to the incomplete VST3 support in these hosts.

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