Plogue OPS7 (bit-accurate DX7 emulation!)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
User avatar
KVRian
954 posts since 27 Mar, 2013

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:57 am

foosnark wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:50 am
Autobot wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:22 am
but still not sure if I'm fond of having all the DAC and stuff emulated.
I am. That's the sort of attention to detail that is usually missing, or which people assume you want to "improve."

To me that sort of thing is where the magic is. I would be disappointed if yet another DX7 emulation was released that didn't sound any more accurate than Dexed or FM8. What would be the point of that?

Plogue has become known for obsessively detailed analysis and recreation of retro hardware and it's good to see them continuing that instead of taking the easy way out. And the option is right there to switch to cleaner DAC types.
Sure. Wasn't talking about emulations more about FM synths in general but yeah it's great to see people devoted to this kind of device and how much work went into it.
I grew up on a junkyard, where I started to feed from hubcaps and bumpers

KVRian
550 posts since 18 Nov, 2010

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:59 am

Sorry, this is not even close.
Sounds NOTHING like the real one.
I hear the 1% difference and that is everything. EVERYTHING!

(kidding. I couldn't resist. sounds fine)

KVRian
550 posts since 18 Nov, 2010

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:05 am

fmr wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:51 am

All sound cheesy and horrible. I'm sold - I will buy... NONE :hihi:

Really, I don't get it. Can it at least emulate the DX7 II in that it can layer two sounds?

I can't understand what's the point of emulating a synth that even back tehn didn't sound that special, and was heralded mainly for a couple of sounds (namely the bass and the EP) and the fact that it had 16 voices of polyphony.

Anyone that could would purchase the TX816 instead, which was the real deal if one wanted a really powerful FM synth. Or the DX1...
Agreed. I'm happy this exists, and proud that emulation is getting so great! but 7 never blew my skirt up - except for the 15 minutes when it was bleeding edge sound upon release in the 80s.

But, it is fantastic people are able to fully recreate sounds of aged instruments that people want, at reasonable prices now.

KVRian

Topic Starter

909 posts since 28 Jul, 2006

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:07 am

I do think it sounds very slightly different in the comparisons. Not even necessarily worse, but very slightly different in character on some patches. I'm guessing it's the analog stage modeling, or lack of noise or something?

Is there sampled or modeled noise you can turn on?

User avatar
fmr
KVRAF
10538 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:07 am

wwjd wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:59 am
Sorry, this is not even close.
Sounds NOTHING like the real one.
I hear the 1% difference and that is everything. EVERYTHING!

(kidding. I couldn't resist. sounds fine)
You are kidding, but I bet we will see a couple of videos on You Tube stating exactly this... and talking seriously :roll:

Just give it some time.
Fernando (FMR)

User avatar
fmr
KVRAF
10538 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:12 am

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:03 am
fmr wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:51 am




I can't understand what's the point of emulating a synth that even back tehn didn't sound that special, and was heralded mainly for a couple of sounds (namely the bass and the EP) and the fact that it had 16 voices of polyphony.

You don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about :lol:
Oh yes I have, That's why Yamaha rushed launching the DX7 II just a couple of years later (three years later, to be exact).

Much of the praise FM received was from the DX7 II, not the original DX7.
Fernando (FMR)

User avatar
KVRAF
2285 posts since 12 May, 2004 from Oxford, UK

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:23 am

fmr wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:12 am
Much of the praise FM received was from the DX7 II, not the original DX7.
Maybe where you lived, absolutely not in the UK. Praise was heaped on the original DX7 back in 1983. It was the first mainstream fully digital synth. Closest was probably the Synclavier and it was more advanced in terms of FM than that.

By the time the DX 7 II came around in 1987 most of the excitement around the DXs had waned. We had had the DX9, DX1, DX 5, DX21, DX100/DX27. Plus the modules.

We were all looking for the next thing.

KVRian
550 posts since 18 Nov, 2010

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:25 am

fmr wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:07 am
wwjd wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:59 am
Sorry, this is not even close.
Sounds NOTHING like the real one.
I hear the 1% difference and that is everything. EVERYTHING!

(kidding. I couldn't resist. sounds fine)
You are kidding, but I bet we will see a couple of videos on You Tube stating exactly this... and talking seriously :roll:

Just give it some time.
I did listen to the above youtube with direct comparison with hardware, and I DID hear differences, but nothing to complain about. Differences in all real hardware yadda yadda etc. It's easily "Good Enough". As are the other 3 dx7 emulations I already own :D

User avatar
KVRAF
21940 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:39 am

fmr, dunno what you're talking about... 3 years is a pretty usual cycle for a refresh of a device in hardware synths. DX7 blew everyone away back in the day. 16 voices of polyphony was a HUGE deal! Analogs which offered that many voices were much more expensive (Rhodes Chroma comes to mind... and not many others!) and more unwieldy. And also back then EVERYONE loved the fresh sounds it brought. Yes the basses and the EPs are cliche now, but back then analogs couldn't produce sounds with such crystalline quality at all. It was a showstopper and sold tremendously well. It outsold pretty much any analog synth ever, becoming the best sold synth ever until M1 came around (and later Microkorg).

User avatar
KVRAF
4642 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:49 am

Not sure if this isa bug but I mention it anyway
I can only compare to dexed and my tg77 ( which is not a dx7 )
Even when key sync is on ( instant attack and fast decay to zero for modulator ) , it sounds less clicky compared to dexed ..iow a softer attack .
Plogue's s a short linear fade in ramp , dexed has a short exp.fade in and a sudden drop responsible for the click
Anyone with a real dx7 that can jump in ?
It's most noticeable with low ratio operaotrs 0.5 going into 0.5
Image
Last edited by gentleclockdivider on Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

KVRian
807 posts since 3 Aug, 2001 from Montreal

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:50 am

Thanks for all the comments!

<pedantic>
For hardware comparison, one should list all the details of the test setup.
Mono Recording.
The exact model of DX7, its firmware version (yes it matters see my video) and all settings in the OPS7 settings page. We claim high accuracy only with:

A physical DX7 mk1 with firmware 1.8 (set "Newer firmware" in settings or "Older" if its not - we do not have all variants)
(Not a DX7II/FD/S, they _will_ sound different, how much depends on the preset)

In OPS7 Settings:
DAC Bits : 10~12:2 (its the default)
DAC error set to taste with just a sine wave (between 1 to 3 is usually good)
Filtering to whatever fits the list with YOUR DX7 (you might want to try with a bright/noisy sound and a spectrum analyzer)
Chan Mix: Accurate, but should matter that much
Vel Mode: **CRUCIAL**: set to External if you feed your DX7 with _external_ MIDI, or Internal if you play the DX7's keyboard and send its MIDI out to OPS7. This particular hot topic also plagued other comparison with other plugins in the past. To be fair, it is very important for Velocity scaling levels

</pedantic>

Thanks :)
David Viens, Plogue Art et Technologie Inc. Montreal.
https://twitter.com/plgDavid
https://plogue.com

KVRian
807 posts since 3 Aug, 2001 from Montreal

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:57 am

If you feel one specific preset doesnt match, please send us the SYSEX to investigate.
David Viens, Plogue Art et Technologie Inc. Montreal.
https://twitter.com/plgDavid
https://plogue.com

User avatar
KVRAF
4642 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:00 am

fmr wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:12 am
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:03 am
fmr wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:51 am




I can't understand what's the point of emulating a synth that even back tehn didn't sound that special, and was heralded mainly for a couple of sounds (namely the bass and the EP) and the fact that it had 16 voices of polyphony.

You don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about :lol:
Oh yes I have, That's why Yamaha rushed launching the DX7 II just a couple of years later (three years later, to be exact).

Much of the praise FM received was from the DX7 II, not the original DX7.
Sure go ahead re-writing history guided by your emotions , it's a trend nowadays :lol:
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

User avatar
KVRAF
1963 posts since 6 Jul, 2013

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:16 am

ChamomileShark wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:23 am
fmr wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:12 am
Much of the praise FM received was from the DX7 II, not the original DX7.
Maybe where you lived, absolutely not in the UK. Praise was heaped on the original DX7 back in 1983. It was the first mainstream fully digital synth. Closest was probably the Synclavier and it was more advanced in terms of FM than that.

By the time the DX 7 II came around in 1987 most of the excitement around the DXs had waned. We had had the DX9, DX1, DX 5, DX21, DX100/DX27. Plus the modules.

We were all looking for the next thing.
Yep. This matches my memory/recollection, and is backed up by plenty of documented material in the muzines archive...

I was never particularly a DX7 fan, but you can't underestimate just how much of a massive change/leap it was in the context of the time, if you weren't there, and into electronic music and synthesizers at the time.

It's sleek, reliable, modern-looking frame with at least double the polyphony of other instruments, touch sensitivity, memories, sounds that were new and responsive and fast that just weren't coming from previous analog synths, really gave a whole new palette and playing experience to people. This is genuinely a game-changer of an instrument, in the actual proper use of the term, along with the small number of other genuine game changers, like the Minimoog, Prophet 5, LinnDrum, Fairlight CMI and arguably the D50/M1 etc.

By the time of the DX7II launch in '87, the general reaction was "Ok, it sounds cleaner and it has a bit updated spec, but it's *still* essentially an (old) '83 DX7 in terms of sound possibilities, and doesn't really add much", and the D50 had just come out with it's chiffs and digital FX and thick chunky sounds that made the DX7II look rather behind-the-times to the synth consumer. (This poor commercial response for the instrument led Yamaha to commission Manny's "DX7II rescue pack" soundset, largely inspired by the D50, to make the DX7II look more attractive in comparison and boost poor sales.)

BTW - I'm one of the "five people" ;) that watched David's DX7 engineering videos, and thoroughly enjoyed them. I love people's passion for doing these slightly crazy things that interest them, and love this kind of reverse-engineering work to understand quite the work and engineering skill of creating the original instruments.
Last edited by beely on Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

KVRAF
7611 posts since 7 Oct, 2005

Post Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:18 am

In the example I gave, I tested 4 synth: MODX, OPS7, DX7 V and FM8. They were in that order as well.

Anyway, OPS7 is very near to MODX. It's almost identical while DX7 V and FM8 are lacking some
details and character. DX7 V is slightly better than FM8.
I have no idea how near the MODX is from the original DX7 though.

Return to “Instruments”