Roli Seaboard RISE

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
16318 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:55 pm

Kinh wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:15 pm
Ive seen no youtube videos on people using it for rhode keys or piano sounds either.
The piano itself doesn't have such poly expression. So no reason to use an MPE controller for playing piano.

User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
16318 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:04 am

deastman wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:37 pm
I think the Seaboard is definitely most suited to mono/load patches and solo instruments such as woodwinds.
Works great for stringed instruments too. Take for example a Koto. Bending notes is part of playing that instrument and because notes take some time to decay, regular pitchbend doesn't work as decaying notes also bend.

Also with string instruments, if you want to bend a single note up a step and then play a couple notes to make it a chord, the 2 extra notes would also be bent with regular pitchbend, but it works as expected with MPE.

Those are only a couple examples of how it is useful polyphonically and not just for mono sounds.

K-Bee
KVRAF
2213 posts since 9 Mar, 2009 from Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:52 am

pdxindy wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:55 pm
Kinh wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:15 pm
Ive seen no youtube videos on people using it for rhode keys or piano sounds either.
The piano itself doesn't have such poly expression. So no reason to use an MPE controller for playing piano.
Had George Duke still been with us, I'm sure he would have MPE rhodes and pianos. :D Damn! I miss him :(

himalaya
KVRAF
5173 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:49 am

Kinh wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:15 pm
So what other sounds is seaboard suited to? From what I've seen on youtube (and there aren't many) it seems more suited to mono/lead patches and exotic lead instruments. I take it the controller settings like pressure can be assigned to any parameter like filter, is that right? If so have you had any encouraging results doing electronic music, especially polyphonic stuff?

I'm seriously looking at investing in this (even switching daws just to use it) cause on the surface it seems like an all round real-time modulator for electronic music but I'm not sure if the electronic community have either looked at this or currently use it for that purpose. As I said, there's few videos on this subject, everyone seems to be using it for lead guitar sounds.

Ive seen no youtube videos on people using it for rhode keys or piano sounds either.
Great post! I can tell you from the start that the Seaboard is good for virtually everything. It was designed to fulfil many roles, from monophonic soloing to polyphonic expression. However, I'd say that its real talent, its raison d'être is multi-dimensional-polyphonic playing and expression.

it seems like an all round real-time modulator for electronic music
It absolutely is. Often, you see official demos which show Seaboard virtuosity, but I'd like to show you something that is relatively simple to play and yet something that is very 'electronic'. This video shows exactly that, a Seaboard as a realtime 'modulator'. A ring-modulator. In addition, this video below is made on the Seaboard GRAND which does not have the slide dimension, but watch how expressive it is with just poly-pitch bend and continuous-poly-pressure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWsTac1exhk



Here's another example, this time on the RISE. Simple playing, so anybody can do that (the video is cued up to start on the 'Desolate' preset. EDIT: for some reason the video refuses to play from the right time, so fast forward to 2m13sec):

https://youtu.be/5yzwoc1l5e0?t=133

Later in that video there is a pseudo-granular patch ('pseudo' because Cypher2 does not have a Granular engine, but it can mimic one).

Also, check this video about Deru, who is all about fine electronic music and some very exquisite sounds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SHhuBmUVMs

Just a few example of electronic sounds.

I suspect the reason why you are seeing more user generated content that focusses on lead guitars and such, is because traditionally, it's always been difficult to do it right on a normal keyboard. And here at last is a 'keyboard' that can be moulded under your fingertips, with each key bent in a fluid manner, either for a pure pitch bend, vibrato or pitch-legato note transitions, just like on string instruments. The ribbon can also be used in different ways to add all manner of pitch-related gestures...
Then to contrast this, electronic music artists tend to like synths with knobs and sliders, with people preferring to sequence or draw data in their DAWs and manipulate sounds in this way, rather than in real-time. However, I can say with all honesty, since electronic music is what I do, it's my original passion and what caused me to be interested in music in the first place, that using MPE controllers, whether it's a Seaboard, Linnstrument, Haken Continuum, Madrona Labs Soundplane, and others, really gives more natural results. That is, when I play an MPE controller, my performance, however simple, is more alive, more intricate, imbued with gestures I would not think to perform if I were to draw automation data in my DAW...I think this is the crucial aspect, this intuitive way to add expression to electronic sounds. And the cool thing is, I don't need to have great keyboard skills to do it. One great way to show this is to take an arpeggiated patch and play it with both hands. On an MPE controller, this will give you a big arpeggiated sound (two hands: big chords) and at the same time 4 ways to manipulate this sound in real time, all without lifting your hands to reach to a knob ( or buy expression pedals): velocity, pitch, slide, pressure. And the 'pitch' dimension doesn't have to control pitch at all. Use it like 'slide', like a massive poly-fader and assign to some timbre-shaping parameter, like ring-modulation for example, like in that 'ring-mod' video above. :)
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design

User avatar
el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
15515 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:34 am

pdxindy wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:55 pm
So no reason to use an MPE controller for playing piano.
No reason not to, either. My 'normal' controller is stashed away, leaving me to use the Roli exclusively.

If trained pianists have no issues with it then I should be fine :tu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXbDY3q ... gs=pl%2Cwn

User avatar
el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
15515 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:39 am

pdxindy wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:04 am
deastman wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:37 pm
I think the Seaboard is definitely most suited to mono/load patches and solo instruments such as woodwinds.
Works great for stringed instruments too.
Best drum pads I've used, also. In fact, any normal 2D sound can benefit from a non-mechanical keyboard (Having no dead travel space helps with consistent velocity striking, even at very low velocities, and also allows for more rapid key-ing on the same note), and makes every sound connect to the performer as it were it's own instrument.

So say I, anyway :shrug:

User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
16318 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:31 am

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:34 am
pdxindy wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:55 pm
So no reason to use an MPE controller for playing piano.
No reason not to, either. My 'normal' controller is stashed away, leaving me to use the Roli exclusively.

If trained pianists have no issues with it then I should be fine :tu:
I agree... use whatever you want in whatever creative way you want. That said, a number of traditional pianists on KVR and GS have said they tried the Rise and prefer their regular weighted keybed.

Kinh
KVRian
1297 posts since 26 Aug, 2012

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:32 am

Holy shit! I haven't seen any of these videos before

User avatar
el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
15515 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:58 am

pdxindy wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:31 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:34 am
pdxindy wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:55 pm
So no reason to use an MPE controller for playing piano.
No reason not to, either. My 'normal' controller is stashed away, leaving me to use the Roli exclusively.

If trained pianists have no issues with it then I should be fine :tu:
I agree... use whatever you want in whatever creative way you want. That said, a number of traditional pianists on KVR and GS have said they tried the Rise and prefer their regular weighted keybed.
It's absolutely down to preference, I agree.

My point was more that I'd have imagined that a professional pianist's muscle-memory would be so absolutely ingrained to not even allow for all the shifts that Roli forces i.e 'black'-keys spaced/doubled on the 'white' line (Rang dang diggedy dang di-dang), zero key travel, wave squiggie-ness etc.

himalaya
KVRAF
5173 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:00 am

Kinh wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:32 am
Holy shit! I haven't seen any of these videos before

Don't forget about Strobe2. It's also MPE compatible and provides yet another palette of sounds, different to what Equator and Cypher2 offer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W41RowQsNBU&t=26s

In this video from about 1m15sec you can also see the little mentioned Absolute Mode slide. Catch it also at 1m02sec when the performer is doing a quick staccato run along the keywave. A great example of the absolute mode. Great fun!
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design

User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
16318 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:08 am

himalaya wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:49 am
However, I can say with all honesty, since electronic music is what I do, it's my original passion and what caused me to be interested in music in the first place, that using MPE controllers, whether it's a Seaboard, Linnstrument, Haken Continuum, Madrona Labs Soundplane, and others, really gives more natural results. That is, when I play an MPE controller, my performance, however simple, is more alive, more intricate, imbued with gestures I would not think to perform if I were to draw automation data in my DAW...I think this is the crucial aspect, this intuitive way to add expression to electronic sounds.
I completely agree... MPE controllers were/are the missing piece for me. They are so expressive and beautiful. For some sounds I take off the pitch control. It makes me have to be much more precise in my playing and it also means there are subtle variations and immediately it feels more alive to me.

One thing though... and this is not a judgement, just an observation. It looks to me like lots of people are not interested in that and one can say that there is an effort to perfect mechanical music. Also, lots of people today are really more composers (producers) than musicians. For someone programming/automating most everything... MPE controllers are not necessarily of much use.

So yes, I completely agree with you. That aliveness, that spontaneous intuitive expressiveness is what is important to me. That is what I aim for and so for me, MPE controllers are one of the most important innovations ever in electronic music.

I do think I'm the minority... which is fine. I'm just glad that minority is big enough that such controllers are becoming a commercial reality.

himalaya
KVRAF
5173 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:22 am

pdxindy wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:08 am


One thing though... and this is not a judgement, just an observation. It looks to me like lots of people are not interested in that and one can say that there is an effort to perfect mechanical music. Also, lots of people today are really more composers (producers) than musicians. For someone programming/automating most everything... MPE controllers are not necessarily of much use.
I can only echo your observation. It's something I have reflected upon on numerous occasions.

I think your phrase is extremely apt: "there is an effort to perfect mechanical music". The ideology behind MPE goes against that. Although, MPE controllers can also be used as glorified 'mega' faders, where one draws data with slide, glide, and press. This, however, would not be the right reason to get into MPE instruments.

I've also noticed that people instantly 'get' what all these MPE controllers are about, and what benefit they could bring to ones music making, when they experience a one-to-one demo, or maybe a demo at a trade show. Videos and just talking about how 'good' these instruments are, is no good anymore. It doesn't convince people. But seeing it in person, being guided by an experienced demonstrator always illustrates how these 'devices' can be best used. People instantly 'get' it. Even those who are not players. I've seen one person with no musical skills whatsoever, a producer, who approached the Seaboard by simply sliding and gliding with their open hands, creating this wash of abstract sound, a complex texture, and this very fact, was enough for them to become a user.

But, at the end of the day, MPE controllers are part of the family of electronic instruments, fitting nicely into a larger picture. I still love using my vintage analog synths, interacting with knobs and sliders, and I do enjoy an odd occasion of editing automation laboriously in a DAW. All have their place...although, I do have to say, playing a bass line on a normal synth feels very restrictive after years of playing such bass lines on a Seaboard...
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design

User avatar
el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
15515 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:49 am

pdxindy wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:08 am
Also, lots of people today are really more composers (producers) than musicians.
I've not been a producer for a long time, due to the whole start-to-finish process leaving me cold. That lack of interest even spread to playing guitar, which I haven't done for a few years. What the 'Rise 49' has given me is a renewed love for just playing/making music, just for the sake of it. I have totally relieved myself of the pressure of there being some kind of product to show for these 'efforts', although it's very likely that that will change at some point. For the moment, I'll just take it for the joy that it is :tu:

User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
16318 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:06 am

himalaya wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:22 am
But, at the end of the day, MPE controllers are part of the family of electronic instruments, fitting nicely into a larger picture. I still love using my vintage analog synths, interacting with knobs and sliders
I'm looking forward to playing the Moog One from a Rise 49 (why don't they make a 61???)

himalaya
KVRAF
5173 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:51 am

Nice. Is the Moog One in anyway compatible with any MPE releated parameters? I did have a chance to play it briefly a few days ago, but haven’t seen the full spec.

I’ve tested the Seaboard Grand with Alesis Andromeda years ago. For poly-pressure it worked well.
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design

Return to “Hardware (Instruments and Effects)”